Are we doomed without them? Or have they outlived their usefulness? Have unions become what they are originally created to fight against? I am on the fence with unions, I have never belonged to one, so the only positives/negatives I can go on are what I read in the paper or on the internet. Couple notes from a former union worker on a blog: Your thoughts, especially if you are in a union.
whether or not a member of the working class understands it, owners and labor are on either side of a tall fence. The first step is to understand what one's interests are, then look around and wonder why the so many seem so powerless against the so few. There's ways to make labor on the other side of an arbitrary border not compete in a race to the bottom at home. There's even ways to remove ownership altogether after determining what it is we want from life and society....problem is that without the language to understand or express these ideas, the many will be divided and fighting over the scraps master tosses from the dinner table
So now we don't understand the value of collective bargaining or that there is strength in numbers? Silly folks....letting paid media folks and talking heads convince us that any type of organization of labor is bad for business....got folks identifying with the ownership class to which they will probably never belong. What's funnier is folks wanting a return to the nation's "golden era" even though the most prosperous period in american history is littered with union influence. Don't they understand...it was better, because it worked better for everybody....not just the owners?
Oh I see, so you must have some insight? What union did you work under? Or just because something worked well 30-40 years ago makes it fine today? Now that's funny. I understand collective bargaining and I understand strength in numbers. What I don't understand is how performance and perseverance can be overlooked because of of tenure. Or if someone is exceptionally bad at their job, they can somehow hang on to it for so long. Like I asked, do you think Unions have outgrown their usefulness? What's silly is replying to to a post with pompousness.
Not responding to what you have going with L but to what you are saying concerning unions... The idea of slackers using collective bargaining to achieve their dreams of equality and respect is a talking point used to foment envy towards unionized workers. But it doesn't address why that would be a problem for the workers. Let's pretend the problem is rampant (much less a problem at all)...is that weighing down a scale in the favor of "legaly" dismantling collective bargaining? Keeping in mind the result will be and has been: lower wages, longer hours, loss of benefits, reduction in unemployment insurance, loss of daycare, increased crime, increased incarceration, increased child and spousal abuse, increased mental illness, reduction in real economy, increased xenophobia and decreased quality of services from education to vital infrastructure? Why are people working or even living? To stay alive long enough to hit the super lottery? That Ikea plant that recently opened in the South looks great because the wages beat working in a chicken plant but all of the non-unionized factory jobs benefit directly from competing with higher unionized wages. Do you really think that when enough non-unionized USicans decide that lazy high paid union workers are somehow a problem and are forever gotten rid of, that that Ikea plant will keep being a generous boss? Ask the people who are protesting in Sweden (a country with a minimum wage of 18 an hour, free higher education and healthcare and retirement for all its citz) what they think of that company going overseas to undercut Swedish wages to use people in sweatshops...YES, that is how Sweden sees US workers! Sweat shop employees. The thread question seems funny because there isn't much of unions LEFT. and and what little is left is mainly government. It's important to know that things have always sucked for the vast majority of people in most countries' entire histories and it overboiled during the industrial "revolution"...The only bright light was the results in response to that in the form of organized labor fighting and dying in the streets for a "middle class" type existence. We are only 70 or 80 years away from when workers took over their conditions to an extent. But that baby's been strangled in the crib and you're asking if it's outgrown its usefulness. I think a better question would be, "Do you think Unions need to be brought back" Of course, waiting for our benevolent masters to do it for us isn't how it EVER worked. Those history books didn't mention ONE minor or major strike or riot or all the dead bodies, and we are to believe that somehow some kindly King gave people all the shit they now seem to take for granted (which is going if not gone)? Now the hatred of the dispossessed and exploited has successfully been turned against the few left in unions because they might be lazy slackers? Instead of these billionaire robbers and their army of professionals? Wild! United Sycophants of America All that said, WHY do we need to keep out producing every year? I think in the time of Marx, growth wasn't questioned (just the rights of people to own their own labor) like it needs to be now but have you guys ever considered why expansion and productivity needs to be there for the common good of all? And considered the fact that it can't go on forever?
First of all....my father worked for GM for 27 years and hasn't held a job since retiring in 1992 at the age of 51, because he was smart with his money, and because his union got him a great pension package. He gets a cost of living increase every year, because of his union and he ain't helped make a car in 20 years. He and my mom have better medical benefits than I have, because of the UAW. I am alive today, because of his medical package which covered my surgery when my infected appendix burst when I was 9 and poisoned my entire system. Secondly, it's not "what union did I work under"........I work in a performers union right now (AFM...American Federation of Musicians) http://www.afm.org/ which is why you have to pay me $70-$80 dollars an hour for many of my musical services in a professional setting....and I'm glad performers before me started a union, cause performance houses, concert halls, and companies that hire such can't just rape me or pay me whatever they wish. Want me to scan in my member card for you? I also use BMI as my musical society which not only collects my royalties, but acts as a watchdog service for folks abusing publishing rights as a member of a collective of musical professionals. Want that info too? BMI Acct #: 795764 Next...to touch on something you asked specifically.....unions are like families. Every member of a family isn't a good member, but you don't get to put someone out of a family without them really messing up and stepping over some major boundaries. When a person violates union rules or if cause is sufficiently shown....they get fired. Not sure why folks think you can't get fired in a union....it's just not easy to terminate someone in a union....and wouldn't that have been a good thing for many americans when companies just up and moved plants to Indonesia. At least they would have been offered opt out packages or severance packages. Lastly, to answer the original question again.....unions no longer being useful is a silly notion! It's being made to look sound by those wishing to dismantle unions and take away workers rights. Union don't block performance and perseverance....they reward it.....as well as protect lessor members who also need to make a living. Unions are the only way workers rights have been protected for decades and seeing how many folks are getting laid off and under-paid right now...we need more unions to help good hard working americans get what the deserve from greedy corporations. I don't see how any intelligent person can think otherwise, but then again...I feel that way, cause I know both first-hand and second-hand what good unions can do!
OK Nose, after reading my post I can see it assumes you are anti union when you have said you were on the fence....so, sorry! (I still think you are though, you capitalist dog!).
I was in a Union for one week at a grocery store I quit on to go party in Ensenada. Answering that appeal to authority validates the tactic but yeah, My grandpa was Union all his life, but I didn't give a shit until I started reading about actual history many years after school. He had plenty of idle time in retirement to advance in art and math and lived and died in dignity. That is GONE now. The US government (whatever you want to call a body of unelected oligarchs) has finally been able to settle it's long standing score with its most hated enemy....the American people. If they only knew
So after asking your opinion and getting this: Now you feel the need to answer with something somewhat intelligent, but also full of contempt. Like I said , you should refrain from your pompous comments unless you want to add something worth talking about without feeling the need to attack me personally just because I don't see your point of view. It's funny how humble you want to appear, but in reality act as silly as the people you claim "not to understand"
Haha. Not at all. I feel like we would not have the working conditions we have now without unions. I thank them for my vacation pay, sick leave, family leave, emergency leave, 40 hour work weeks and so on. I have never been part of a union though.
