The 9/11 Terror Attacks Was An Inside Job?

[Drunk]

Continuing the discussion on 9/11. A very touchy subject. A large percentage of people feel the terror attacks that took place on 9/11 was an inside job. Or at least that the US Government is not telling the truth about what really happened that day. You wouldnt normally hear about these people because the media will not give any credibility to anything other than the official story. I dont know how to approach this subject without writing an entire paper or book for that matter. There are so many questions that thousands of books have been written. Ive actually written a paper on the subject in a international relations course i took a few years ago. Its safe to say my teacher didnt take it very well. Apparently she knew somebody that was killed and took my "blasphemous" paper personal. How dare i disrespect the heroes that were killed. Very similar to the mindset that if you criticize the war, you are doing the same to the soldiers. If it hit so close to home, wouldnt she want to know as much as possible? I dont even think she read the whole thing. I felt it was an A paper but recieved a C. I remember thinking, what does the subject have to do with the quality of the paper? A heavy topic indeed.

I have done research on the 9/11 attacks for years and am still looking for answers. I have yet to come to a conclusion (i have a few theories so you can call me a conspiracy theory nut if youd like) other than the inconsistencies with the official story are piled mile high. And the behavior of the players involved is very peculiar. I will not pretend, nor intend to change anybodys mind. My goal is to get people to think, and make their own decisions. Its difficult to make a proper decision however, when the only source of information is the American media. Anyways, without getting too deep i will mostly just ask questions that come to the top of my head. I wont even go into the events prior or money trails, etc, (you guys feel free) Im sure more in depth discussion will come further along in the thread. All im doing is looking for answers and trying to learn. This subject is taboo, but must be talked about. I think this forum with people of all different walks of life is perfect. The following are some questions and notes in no particular order. If my info is wrong please correct me.



1. Who is The Project For A New American Century (PNAC) and what was their document Rebulding Americas Defenses all about? Some say "This is an organization of political ideologues (neocons) who wrote detailed plans that included invading Afghanistan, Iraq & the middle east. Their goal is ensure America is the only super power in the world. You can research their work for it is public information. Members of PNAC include Donald Rumsfeld and more than ten members of the Bush foreign & defense policy teams. In their documentation they openly state that the public and Congress would not accept their agenda and that the transition would be a slow one “absent a catalyzing and catastrophic event like a New Pearl Harbor!”


2. Was Dick Cheney involved in any war games the very moment of the attack that allowed him to run a completely different chain control and command via the secret service? Could he see what the FAA was seeing that morning? Is it possible the air force could have been confused (intentional or not) because of these war games. War games that coincidently simulated planes crashing into buildings. At the same time Cheney had arranged for a drill involving a bio attack on NY. This resulted in FEMA setting up a command post on pier 29 in New York on September 10th. Some of these drill were scheduled for later in the year but Dick Cheney rescheduled them and made sure that they all took place on the same day.Did the war games involve live fly exercises, and electronic drills where fake blips were placed on radar screens. Was Cheney was in charge of a communications system that superseded those of the FAA, NORAD and NEADS. Some of the drills possibly includeding remote control planes?


3. Why is it that every hijacked plane flew over a US military base, yet US fighter jets werent even in position to shoot the planes down should the orders be given? (ill post the flight paths pasted over military bases later)

4. Why were fighter jets sent in the wrong direction and why werent they flying at top speed? WHY DID U.S. AIR DEFENSES FAIL TO FOLLOW STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES ON SEPT. 11, 2001? WHAT DECISIONS UNDERLAY THIS? WHAT WERE THE TYPICAL RESPONSES AND RESPONSE TIMES TO POSSIBLE HIJACKINGS IN THE PAST?


5. Warren Buffet (2nd wealthiest American) hosts a party at Offutt Air Force Base on 9/11. Offutt AFB is the headquarters for the Strategic Air Command of the US Air Force. This is where Air Force One decided to go once Bush got done with 'My Pet Goat.' The Strategic Air Command (SAC) in constantly holding global 'SAC Alerts' that should have dealt with the 9/11 flights within minutes.

6. The Pentagon flight hits the section for Naval Intelligence. Which had just been beefed up against a security breach. Construction was due to be completed in a couple days. Very few victims for this reason, a few construction workers. The flight fails to even scratch the lawn. A tough flight for a veteran 767 pilot, few claim they could do it.

7. Bush spent a lot of time with 'My Pet Goat' and the 6th grade class after hearing about the attack. Why was he not considered a possible target of the terrorists? Bush and his entourage were still in the school at 9:32 a.m., 45 minutes after the first WTC crash, 27 minutes after the second crash, and 10 minutes before the Pentagon was hit. This was when Bush delivered his first statement on the attacks, live on national television, from the school!

8. Rumsfeld was on the opposite side of the Pentagon when the attack occurred. He later referred to a missile hitting the Pentagon. Why have all the surveilance videos been confiscated? Why so many inconsistencies with plane rubble amounts and bodies being found?

9. Why did Silverstein order WTC 7 to be demolished? How is it possible to bring down a building of that magnitude in a matter of hours with so much chaos going on. (even without the chaos it takes weeks of planning) if he already knew, why did he lie and why did he choose to bring it down that day? NOTE: Larry Silverstein invested $386 million in WTC 7. On 9/11, by his own admission, Larry Silverstein ordered the demolition of his building. In February of 2002, his company won a settlement of $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers.

10. Who gained because 9/11? (this one deserves a thread of its own)

11.Indestructible black boxes were not recovered yet a passport survived the inferno. Another fantastic coincidence that the actual passport of the most famous hijacker was found near the twin towers. Who found the passport?

12. Why is it that several of the suppossed hijackers have turned up alive and well and some have even done interviews with BBC. If the government made a mistake about the identities of the hijackers, why has no action been taken to correct the mistakes?

13. No other high rise commercial steel building has ever collapsed from fire. Yet three collapsed perfectly into their own footprints on 9/11? What about all the reports from people and firefighters on the ground hearing explosions just prior to the buildings coming down. Why are so many physics proffesors and scientists claiming it is impossible for the buildingd to collapse the way they did from a plane crashing them?

14. Was the plane over pennsylvania brought down or shot down? Why are witnesses giving detailed accounts of fighter planes shooting it down? Did the Shanksville crash occur at 10:06 (according to a seismic report) or 10:03 (according to the 9/11 Commission)? Does the Commission wish to hide what happened in the last three minutes of the flight, and if so, why? Was Flight 93 shot down, as indicated by the scattering of debris over a trail of several miles?


15. What evidence against Osama Bin Laden do we have other than a supposed admission of guilt. Is that enough to convict someone? Do we need more evidence? What is the relationship between the Bin Ladens And the George Bushes?

16. Did Bin Laden Say This "I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States."

17. Who are the dancing Israeli's that were caught celebrating and videotaping the towers that morning?

18. Why have the news media neglected to inform the public of Cheney’s actions that day?

19. Why did Bush and Cheney insist on being questioned by the commission together, without being taped, without taking an oath and with no records kept?

[Drunk]

20. In the years following the event, have you ever heard from the people who you were told committed these acts? Or, have you only been told why this happened by the people who want you to believe their story?

21. To this day, there has been no independent official inquiry into the attacks of September 11, 2001. The Kean Commission, with which most Americans are familiar, was based on the Bush/PNAC version of events. It was charged with probing the breakdown of intelligence prior to the attacks and making suggestions for improving communications among the competing agencies involved. The Commission, formed after more than a year of opposition by the Bush administration, did not…repeat...did NOT…investigate or report about the causes of the attacks

22. Even more absurd is that fact that not a single official inquiry has attempted to respond to, discredit, or refute the questions that have been raised. On the contrary, both the American government and the complicit media have dealt with the every single challenge to the 9/11 explanations in two ways. They either totally ignore them or dismiss them out of hand as ridiculous conspiracy theories. Most of the well-researched and revealing findings by independent investigators are unknown to the vast majority of Americans.

23. How could someone have placed anonymous put options on American Airlines and United Airlines just prior to the attacks of 9/11? Then ask yourself why no one has investigated this suspicious deal. Ask yourself why there has been no attempt by the US government to identify the person who anticipated huge profits from a disaster that was yet to occur. Is it because the trail possibly leads to the CIA?


24. Why do so many agencies from all around the world claim to have warned the US of impending attacks? Including Mossad, British intelligence mi6, Vladimir Putin, etc, ect.

25. the FBI and the Bush administration had no information regarding an attack on the World Trade Center then why was the FBI inspecting the WTC complex with bomb sniffing dogs on September 10th 2001?

26. Who is the 9/11 commission? Who were the put together by? Has their book "the 9/11 commission report" been discredited by many authors claiming numerous ommissions and distortions?

27. Which hijackers have been positively identified by DNA? Is the FBI in possession of DNA samples for all of the hijackers?

28. Air traffic controllers knew Flight AA 11 had been hijacked by 8:20 a.m. at the latest. By 8:46, when the first plane crashed into the World Trade Center, at least one and possibly two other hijackings were known to be underway. The Federal Aviation Administration had established an open line on the ongoing hijackings with the Secret Service, the White House, NORAD and the Pentagon. Yet George W. Bush, who started the day in Sarasota, Florida, later claimed he thought the first crash was due to pilot error! And this despite the warnings he had received since August of imminent hijackings in the United States. Did no one think to inform the President of what was really happening? Apparently not. After the first crash, Bush and his large entourage of staff and security did not react to the ongoing attacks. They instead continued driving to a Florida elementary school, arriving there shortly before 9 a.m. for a scheduled photo opportunity.

29. How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation''s capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?

30. suspicious monetary transactions worth hundreds of millions were conducted through offices at the Twin Towers during the actual attacks.
Initial reports on these trades were suppressed and forgotten, and only years later did the 9/11 Commission and SEC provide a partial, but untenable explanation for only a small number of transactions (covering only the airline put options through the Chicago Board of Exchange).

POSSIBLE MOTIVES


"The Great Game"
The Afghanistan invasion was ready for Bush''s go-ahead on September 9, 2001, with US and UK force deployments to the region already in place or underway. This followed the failure earlier that year of backdoor diplomacy with the Taliban (including payments of $125 million in US government aid to Afghanistan), in an attempt to secure a unity government for that country as a prerequisite to a Central Asian pipeline deal.

The Need for a "New Pearl Harbor"
Principals in US foreign policy under the current Bush administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and others) have been instrumental in developing long-running plans for worldwide military hegemony, including an invasion of the Middle East, dating back to the Ford, Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations. They reiterated these plans in the late 1990s as members of the "Project for a New American Century," and stated a clear intent to invade Iraq for the purpose of "regime change." After 9/11, they lost no time in their attempt to tie Iraq to the attacks.

Perpetual "War on Terror"
9/11 is supposed to provide carte-blanche for an open-ended, global and perpetual "War on Terror," against any enemy, foreign or domestic, that the executive branch chooses to designate, and regardless of whether evidence exists to actually connect these enemies to 9/11

Attacking the Constitution
a. The USA PATRIOT Act was written before 9/11, Homeland Security and the "Shadow Government" were developed long before 9/11, and plans for rounding up dissidents as a means for suppressing civil disturbance have been in the works for decades.
b. 9/11 was used as the pretext to create a new, extra-constitutional executive authority to declare anyone an "enemy combatant" (including American citizens), to detain persons indefinitely without habeas corpus, and to "render" such persons to secret prisons where torture is practiced.

Legal Trillions
9/11 triggers a predictable shift of public spending to war, and boosts public and private spending in the "new" New Economy of "Homeland Security," biometrics, universal surveillance, prisons, civil defense, secured enclaves, security, etc.

Plundered Trillions?
On September 10, 2001, Donald Rumsfeld announced a "war on waste" after an internal audit found that the Pentagon was "missing" 2.3 trillion dollars in unaccounted assets. On September 11th, this was as good as forgotten.

Did 9/11 prevent a stock market crash?
Did anyone benefit from the destruction of the Securities and Exchange Commission offices at WTC 7, and the resultant crippling of hundreds of fraud investigations?

Resource Wars
a. What was discussed in the Energy Task Force meetings under Dick Cheney in 2001? Why is the documentation of these meetings still being suppressed?
b. Is Peak Oil a motive for 9/11 as inside job?

The "Little Game"
Why was the WTC privatized just before its destruction?


ok, i think ive scratched the surface for now. Enjoy you crazy kids.

[ordane]

I'll give you an A+, Luis!!

[munciesweep]

Ok, these are the two best videos regarding this I have seen yet. Not THE BEST PHYSICAL EVIDENCE videos, but the best put together videos, or we shall call them, "911 truth 101"
If you want the guilty tried and punished, I suggest you watch these.

PART 1
YouTube - Justice For 9/11 (Part 1)

PART 2
YouTube - Justice For 9/11 (Part 2)

[Drunk]

3. Why is it that every hijacked plane flew over a US military base, yet US fighter jets werent even in position to shoot the planes down should the orders be given? (ill post the flight paths pasted over military bases later)

Heres the map. Weird.

[BoltNut]

ok, i think ive scratched the surface for now. Enjoy you crazy kids.

That does it ... we should stage a protest outside the White House to let em know who we are!!! :weirdface:

259

[ordane]

That does it ... we should stage a protest outside the White House to let em know who we are!!! :weirdface:

259

Oh s#!t look at the girl's face looking up at the we are idiots sign!!! And that dudes smile, thats funny!!

[munciesweep]

Total Proof That Bombs Were Planted In The Buildings!


YouTube - 9/11: Total Proof That Bombs Were Planted In The Buildings!

[Drunk]

That does it ... we should stage a protest outside the White House to let em know who we are!!! :weirdface:

259
i dont get it.:weirdface:

and anyways, whos going to make the signs.

[Drunk]

I'll give you an A+, Luis!!

haha, maybe if i would have at least gotten the title of this thread right.

[munciesweep]

Oh s#!t look at the girl's face looking up at the we are idiots sign!!! And that dudes smile, thats funny!!

The dude looks like Mark David Chatman.....after an extra happy meal, or 3.

[Drunk]

was that like a "free o"j protest?

[Boltfan of Oz]

was that like a "free o"j protest?

I think it was a save teri shiavo (sp?) protest...the brain dead woman who some thought Pat Robertson and a Republican Congress prayer session could revive

[Drunk]

Ok, these are the two best videos regarding this I have seen yet. Not THE BEST PHYSICAL EVIDENCE videos, but the best put together videos, or we shall call them, "911 truth 101"
If you want the guilty tried and punished, I suggest you watch these.

PART 1
YouTube - Justice For 9/11 (Part 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmmTtb7X9j8)

PART 2
YouTube - Justice For 9/11 (Part 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQyb159mdfs)

WATCH THIS VIDEO

[chilli311]

Heres the map. Weird.

Did we really need another thread for this?

However, I will answer question 3.

First of all, contrary to what you see in the movies, you can't launch a fighter jet at a moment's notice. Even if the plane is prepped for flight (inspected and fueled), the closest you will find a pilot to one is still at least 5-10 minutes away (unless we're talking about in a war zone, but that's different).

Second, not all of those bases have fighters.

Third, even if the plane was prepped, I guarantee that it didn't have weapons loaded on it since they don't have any bombing ranges in that area. On top of that, to get a weapon from it's storage unit, to the plane, load it onboard, and arm it, takes at LEAST 30 minutes. What would be the point of launching a fighter for something like this if it didn't have weapons?

Fourth, there were no mayday calls. The talked about launching fighters for United 93 after what had happened in NY, but still didn't know if that plane was part of the same thing. Had they launched one from there, I might have understood if it was armed and ready for take off faster than the others due to it's proximity to DC, but unless they knew without a shadow of a doubt what was going to happen, they weren't going to scramble for it.

By the way, did I mention that I work at the largest fighter base in the US? This is one topic that I know pretty well. If you can find me an official Air Force or DOD form (i.e. an actual AFI) to refute this, I would LOVE to read that.

[Drunk]

i feel 100% certain we needed the first GTP 9/11 thread.

As far as the map, i just thought it was weird.

I believe you.

But are you going to to tell me we dont have fighters that ARE ready for this? Not from those bases specifically, but dont we have a protocol? Or are we just shit out of luck if we need to shoot down a plane. even if its an hour later? Even if its headed towards the pentagon? Even with 45 minutes notice?

[chilli311]

But are you going to to tell me we dont have fighters that ARE ready for this? Not from those bases specifically, but dont we have a protocol? Or are we just shit out of luck if we need to shoot down a plane. even if its an hour later? Even if its headed towards the pentagon? Even with 45 minutes notice?

Like I said, prior to 9/11, DC might have had such protocols, but other than that, no. There was nothing.

[Drunk]

Like I said, prior to 9/11, DC might have had such protocols, but other than that, no. There was nothing.

damn it, if i was in my old neighborhood with 45 minutes to spare, im pretty sure i could have came up on a rocket launcher and shot that fucker down myself. :)

[Drunk]

i didnt get to finish this thread because my internet wasnt working yesterday.

i really tried to stay out of the politics talk because of my addictive personality, but i guess i wasnt too successful. But dont worry, luckily everyone has free will and doesnt have to read my filthy ramblings. For those that want to, feel free to contribute. I just be here making an imaginary case against the official 9/11 story to pass the time until football season starts.

I do feel i need balance so a T&A thread is a must! Who wants to be the hero and start one up?

[Drunk]

Sydney Conference: 9/11 - Physics and Findings: Challenging the NIST Report
Posted: 2008/03
From: Mathaba

Dr. David Leifer, Registered Architect and Incorporated Engineer of the Faculty of Architecture, Design Science and Planning at the University of Sydney


In Sydney a conference is now under way challenging the official version and lack of investigation into what happened during the September 11, 2001 attacks in the USA.

Dr David Leifer, Registered Architect and Incorporated Engineer of the Faculty of Architecture, Design Science and Planning at the University of Sydney was the first speaker at the conference.

"We've all seen graphic video images of planes smashing into WTC 1 and 2 on 11th September 2001, we also saw in real time the two towers spectacularly collapse, for which it appears obvious to all that the impact of the planes and subsequent fires were the cause" he started his speech. Seemingly only a fool or subversive would question this chain of events..." he said.

"The official explanation for a string of events surrounding 4 hijackings, the collapses of WTC 1, 2 and 7 and the attack on the Pentagon are anomalous or involve such a large number of unlikely individual events that when strung together are so statistically improbable as to be impossible. These anomalies are in some cases so blatant that one has to question the professional competence of the explainers -- or indeed, their independence and disinterestedness" Dr Leifer said.

"A growing number of credible people from all walks of life have also been struck by the chain of improbabilities: pilots who have examined the flight paths and flight recorders of the hi-jacked planes, architects and engineers who have studied the building's structure and sequence of collapse; security agents and politicians who question the response of the empowered authorities at the time; and perhaps most poignantly the kin of those killed in the attacks whose quest for answers gave rise to the 9/11 Truth movement - the movement in whose name this Conference is called" Dr Leifer said.

"We who are supporting this conference are committed to maintaining the torch of inquiry as a moral duty until satisfactory explanations are presented that resolve these issues. It is my sincere hope that this conference will help to bring the debate to a wider audience. With this goal I bid you welcome", he said.

More...
http://www.mathaba.net/news/911


http://mathaba.net/news/?x=585480

[Devo]

I do not submitt to the conspiracy theory that the US government would do this.

But I am willing to be convinced.

My questions are:
What does the US gain by staging this?
The US could have concocted any scenario to get sympathy/support for invading any country in the world.
Why kill 3,000+ civilians?

This would take a lot of planning, with a lot of people.
Something this big and complicated would take a lot of people to pull off. Someone involved must have a guilty consciencous and talk. Someone involved would have spilled the beans in some compacity before. I just can't see something this massive not get leaked when crap like text messaging an intern gets leaked on a weekly basis.

[Drunk]

You are already submitting to the conspiracy theory that "Bin Laden Did It". Whether its the case or not, its still a theory because it hasnt been proven.

There are some possible motives in post #2 of this thread. The US isnt the only entity that gained.

There were a lot of people involved and people did talk/are talking.

[Devo]

You are already submitting to the conspiracy theory that "Bin Laden Did It". Whether its the case or not, its still a theory because it hasnt been proven.

There are some possible motives in post #2 of this thread. The US isnt the only entity that gained.

There were a lot of people involved and people did talk/are talking.

I'm not saying bin Laden did or did not plan and execute the 9/11 plane crashes.
Maybe it had nothing to do with al Queda. Maybe it had everything to do with al Queda.

Maybe I'm too optomistic to believe our own government would be willing to do such a deed.

[chilli311]

I was watching From the Earth to the Moon the other day, and when Apollo 1 burned up on the launch pad, it was a similar situation in that it was something that had never happened during the tests. For all intents and purposes, it was that 1 thing out of a million that could have gone wrong, but it was also the 1 thing out of a million that no one had ever thought of.

It made me think of the discussion we were having on here a few weeks ago that got this thread started.

[Devo]

You are already submitting to the conspiracy theory that "Bin Laden Did It". Whether its the case or not, its still a theory because it hasnt been proven.

There are some possible motives in post #2 of this thread. The US isnt the only entity that gained.

There were a lot of people involved and people did talk/are talking.

I read the possible motives and watched the Ultimate Con YouTube flick about the secondary explosions, but I'm still not convinced.

There would be other ways to achieve those ends (the motives listed in Post #2).
I'm by no means trying to suggest the United States Government is honest and upfront with the public. I may be an optomist, but I'm not idiotic:rolleyes:
I am fully aware the government is doing everything it can to put the best spin on EVERYTHING. Again, I'm trusting, but I'm drinking the Kool-Aide.

If the government wanted any and all of those ends listed in Post #2, there are other ways to get them without ramming jet airliners into office buildings.

And just because there were secondary explosions does not mean the government put them there.
It could have been an inside job in the fact whoever did this (al Queda, Suadi Arabia, etc.) was able to get a janitor/carpenter/worker (or two or three or ten) into the WTC and rig the explosives or simply park a van in the parking garage like they tried to do back in 199?.

Don't assume I think the government is being honest about what happened on 9/11. But I'm not convinced the government did this to its own people on its own soil. I just think (hope/pray:o) the United States Government has more regard for its citizens than to kill more than 3,000 innocent civillians for
such small gains. An attack could have been planned in Canada/England/Australia - any 'friendly' country - with the same effect and not kill your own citizens. A hijacked airlplane could have been taken in the US and then crashed anywhere else. Some other sort of attack could have happened with a lot less 'colateral damage,' so to speak. It just doesn't make sense to me why the US would purposefully blow up the WTCs? Because it was mad the buildings were privatized? I'm not buying that one minute.

[chilli311]

I read the possible motives and watched the Ultimate Con YouTube flick about the secondary explosions, but I'm still not convinced.

There would be other ways to achieve those ends (the motives listed in Post #2).
I'm by no means trying to suggest the United States Government is honest and upfront with the public. I may be an optomist, but I'm not idiotic:rolleyes:
I am fully aware the government is doing everything it can to put the best spin on EVERYTHING. Again, I'm trusting, but I'm drinking the Kool-Aide.

If the government wanted any and all of those ends listed in Post #2, there are other ways to get them without ramming jet airliners into office buildings.

And just because there were secondary explosions does not mean the government put them there.
It could have been an inside job in the fact whoever did this (al Queda, Suadi Arabia, etc.) was able to get a janitor/carpenter/worker (or two or three or ten) into the WTC and rig the explosives or simply park a van in the parking garage like they tried to do back in 199?.

Don't assume I think the government is being honest about what happened on 9/11. But I'm not convinced the government did this to its own people on its own soil. I just think (hope/pray:o) the United States Government has more regard for its citizens than to kill more than 3,000 innocent civillians for
such small gains. An attack could have been planned in Canada/England/Australia - any 'friendly' country - with the same effect and not kill your own citizens. A hijacked airlplane could have been taken in the US and then crashed anywhere else. Some other sort of attack could have happened with a lot less 'colateral damage,' so to speak. It just doesn't make sense to me why the US would purposefully blow up the WTCs? Because it was mad the buildings were privatized? I'm not buying that one minute.

I don't think I could have put it any better. I feel the exact same way about this situation, as well as the government.

[Drunk]

I read the possible motives and watched the Ultimate Con YouTube flick about the secondary explosions, but I'm still not convinced.

There would be other ways to achieve those ends (the motives listed in Post #2).
I'm by no means trying to suggest the United States Government is honest and upfront with the public. I may be an optomist, but I'm not idiotic:rolleyes:
I am fully aware the government is doing everything it can to put the best spin on EVERYTHING. Again, I'm trusting, but I'm drinking the Kool-Aide.

If the government wanted any and all of those ends listed in Post #2, there are other ways to get them without ramming jet airliners into office buildings.

And just because there were secondary explosions does not mean the government put them there.
It could have been an inside job in the fact whoever did this (al Queda, Suadi Arabia, etc.) was able to get a janitor/carpenter/worker (or two or three or ten) into the WTC and rig the explosives or simply park a van in the parking garage like they tried to do back in 199?.

Don't assume I think the government is being honest about what happened on 9/11. But I'm not convinced the government did this to its own people on its own soil. I just think (hope/pray:o) the United States Government has more regard for its citizens than to kill more than 3,000 innocent civillians for
such small gains. An attack could have been planned in Canada/England/Australia - any 'friendly' country - with the same effect and not kill your own citizens. A hijacked airlplane could have been taken in the US and then crashed anywhere else. Some other sort of attack could have happened with a lot less 'colateral damage,' so to speak. It just doesn't make sense to me why the US would purposefully blow up the WTCs? Because it was mad the buildings were privatized? I'm not buying that one minute.

The possibility that the US government would attack its own citizens is not a new concept. Whats operation northwoods? An attack of this scale is very hard to fathom though, i know. Upon first look. But when you take a look at all the evidence, where does it point? Like i said before, the only real conclusion ive come up with is that the official story the US government told its citizens is a complete joke. And a bad one at that. Why did they, and continue to lie? Why dothey do everything possible to steer us away from the truth? Im looking for explanations to the few questions i posted. There are hundreds more.

You dont assume the government is being honest about 9/11. why?

There was a time that i hoped the government wouldnt murder its own citizens, but they do. In so many ways. In a perfect world they wouldnt send our boys to die for profit and power either. But they do.


There was relatively minimal collateral damage that day. The pentagon was purposely hit in an area that was being reinforced ( as skillful as the "pilot" was, id a thought he'd at least like to kill more than a few construction workers.) the WTC towers were hit early morning so they werent full. Etc.

The same questions you are asking, i am asking. Why hasnt there even been an official attempt to answer them? It was the biggest terror attack on US soil since pearl harbor, doesnt it deserve to be cleared up? Dont these questions deserve answers?


OR

Is it in America's best interest that the majority of its citizens buy the official story?

[Drunk]

31. Why did Bush’s cabinet meet with Mahmoud, the bankroller of 9/11, in the week prior to 9/11?

32. Why, while every one else was in lockdown on 9/11, Bush got the FBI to arrange private jets to collect the bin Laden family and take them safely out of the USA without interrogation. At that point airspace had been reopened to commercial flights but not private flights?

33. Why did CNN’s reporter, Jamie McIntyre, on the scene announced that no plane hit the Pentagon?

34. Why did Rudy Giuliani pre-announce the hit on the Pentagon by a few minutes? How did he know it would happen? How is this possible?

35. Why did Rudy Giuliani announce a hit on the Sears tower?

36. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz were busy discussing the Iraq war in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. Why were they so unconcerned about 9/11?
“I expected to go back to a round of meetings [on 2001-09-12], examining what the next attacks could be, what our vulnerabilities were, what we could do about them in the short term. Instead, I walked into a series of discussions about Iraq. At first I was incredulous that we were talking about something other than getting al Qaeda. Then I realised with an almost sharp physical pain that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz were trying to take advantage of this national tragedy to promote their agenda about Iraq. Since the beginning of the administration, indeed well before, they had been pressing for a war with Iraq. My friends in the Pentagon had been telling me that the word was we would be invading Iraq sometimes in 2002.”
~ Richard A. Clarke, White House Counter Terrorism Chief

37. Why did the hijackers go out in public on the eve of the attack? The got wasted (drank alcohol) partied with strippers, and ate pork. Pretty peculiar behavior for devout muslims. Why did they leave a copy of the q'uran behind?

38. Why did a A FOX reporter report that the plane that hit South Tower had a blue logo? Flight 175 would have had a black and red United logo.

39. Why did Bush try to get Henry Kissinger (of all people) to head the 9/11 Commission?

40. Why did the FBI confiscate a video tape from a gas station security camera aimed directly at the exact point of impact, a security camera video film from a nearby Sheraton hotel, and film from a Virginia Transportation Department freeway overpass camera? Why have they never released this footage?

41.Did Rumsfield say this: “Here we’re talking about plastic knives, and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building, and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center.”
~ Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of War, 2001-10-12 Parade Magazine interview.?

42. Why has this evidence not been released to the public or examined extensively?

a. Evidence tying bin Laden to the crime. All we have is Bush’s say so. One day he claimed he had no idea the attack was coming, and the next he was 100% sure who did it.

b. Recordings of air traffic controller communications with the flights. Were these were shredded and thrown into five different garbage cans?

c. Remains of any of the targeted planes.

d. Remains of the Twin Towers and Building 7

e. Black boxes from any of the targeted planes


43. Was Mike Delbert Vreeland jailed after trying to warn the canadian authorities of the attacks? Was he right about the targets and dates of the attacks?

44. Why wont i just shut the hell up already?

[chilli311]

33. Why did CNN’s reporter, Jamie McIntyre, on the scene announced that no plane hit the Pentagon?

The news always announces shit "live from the scene," but then findds out they were wrong. CNN is HORRIBLE about this.

34. Why did Rudy Giuliani pre-announce the hit on the Pentagon by a few minutes? How did he know it would happen? How is this possible?

35. Why did Rudy Giuliani announce a hit on the Sears tower?

I can't find anything about these... Do you know more about it?

37. Why did the hijackers go out in public on the eve of the attack? The got wasted (drank alcohol) partied with strippers, and ate pork. Pretty peculiar behavior for devout muslims. Why did they leave a copy of the q'uran behind?

That's not peculiar at all for devout muslims that are about to commit the greatest sacrifice that a man can commit. If you look at other reports on suicide bombers, they frequently do this since all their sins will be cleansed the next day.

38. Why did a A FOX reporter report that the plane that hit South Tower had a blue logo? Flight 175 would have had a black and red United logo.

How well can you see a plane's logo from the ground, even if it's only a few hundred feet in the air, unless you are ready for it, and looking in the exact spot it is going to be. Once again, the news agencies frequently mis-report things.

The rest, I don't know enough to answer.

[Drunk]

The news always announces shit "live from the scene," but then findds out they were wrong. CNN is HORRIBLE about this.



I can't find anything about these... Do you know more about it?



That's not peculiar at all for devout muslims that are about to commit the greatest sacrifice that a man can commit. If you look at other reports on suicide bombers, they frequently do this since all their sins will be cleansed the next day.



How well can you see a plane's logo from the ground, even if it's only a few hundred feet in the air, unless you are ready for it, and looking in the exact spot it is going to be. Once again, the news agencies frequently mis-report things.

The rest, I don't know enough to answer.

I know, those news sources pretty much suck. Can you say misinformation.

Thats a pretty sweet deal about the devout muslims. I thought about living a life of sin, then just repenting on my death bed.

ill try to find the rudy quotes. I think i remember hearing one live (Sears tower) but thought nothing of it. Theres also some reporters reporting missles hitting the pentagon, but all those questions can be answered, dismissed as human error, and really isnt concrete proof.

Just more weird happenings on that day.

[sprchrgd]

38. Why did a A FOX reporter report that the plane that hit South Tower had a blue logo? Flight 175 would have had a black and red United logo.
and the United logo is blue and red

http://www.arid.us/badservice/ual/logo.gif

[Devo]

I know, those news sources pretty much suck. Can you say misinformation.

Thats a pretty sweet deal about the devout muslims. I thought about living a life of sin, then just repenting on my death bed.

Hey, become a Catholic!
Reconciliation is always available no matter what you've done.
Pretty sweet deal.

[chilli311]

United plane circa August 2001

http://www.cloakanddagger.de/media/Grossmann/081%209-11%20Tests-Dateien/image021.jpg

American Airlines plane circa May 2001

http://www.sowtp.org/American_Airlines_Flight_77_N644AA_May_3_2001_Smal l_Photo_By_Michael%20Arcellana.jpg

[Drunk]

Hey, become a Catholic!
Reconciliation is always available no matter what you've done.
Pretty sweet deal.

i guess itd be a lot better than only being able to hang out with strippers, drink alcohol, and eat swine the day before you suicide yourself. Waking up in heaven next to a bunch of virgins would be cool. But what if you didnt have a penis? Where can i send in my twilight zone suggestions.

[Drunk]

United plane circa August 2001

http://www.cloakanddagger.de/media/Grossmann/081%209-11%20Tests-Dateien/image021.jpg

American Airlines plane circa May 2001

http://www.sowtp.org/American_Airlines_Flight_77_N644AA_May_3_2001_Smal l_Photo_By_Michael%20Arcellana.jpg

Yup, i shoulda know. Never trust a fox reporter or source when your trying to argue a point. They'll F you every time. ;)

I guess that question is hardly as important as the others. Thanks for the input though.

[sprchrgd]

i guess itd be a lot better than only being able to hang out with strippers, drink alcohol, and eat swine the day before you suicide yourself. Waking up in heaven next to a bunch of virgins would be cool. But what if you didnt have a penis? Where can i send in my twilight zone suggestions.
here's a picture of the virgins the terrorists are promised

http://www.vanriet.com/mt/archives/images/january_img/nuns_with_guns_big.jpg

[munciesweep]

20. In the years following the event, have you ever heard from the people who you were told committed these acts? Or, have you only been told why this happened by the people who want you to believe their story?

21. To this day, there has been no independent official inquiry into the attacks of September 11, 2001. The Kean Commission, with which most Americans are familiar, was based on the Bush/PNAC version of events. It was charged with probing the breakdown of intelligence prior to the attacks and making suggestions for improving communications among the competing agencies involved. The Commission, formed after more than a year of opposition by the Bush administration, did not…repeat...did NOT…investigate or report about the causes of the attacks

22. Even more absurd is that fact that not a single official inquiry has attempted to respond to, discredit, or refute the questions that have been raised. On the contrary, both the American government and the complicit media have dealt with the every single challenge to the 9/11 explanations in two ways. They either totally ignore them or dismiss them out of hand as ridiculous conspiracy theories. Most of the well-researched and revealing findings by independent investigators are unknown to the vast majority of Americans.

23. How could someone have placed anonymous put options on American Airlines and United Airlines just prior to the attacks of 9/11? Then ask yourself why no one has investigated this suspicious deal. Ask yourself why there has been no attempt by the US government to identify the person who anticipated huge profits from a disaster that was yet to occur. Is it because the trail possibly leads to the CIA?


24. Why do so many agencies from all around the world claim to have warned the US of impending attacks? Including Mossad, British intelligence mi6, Vladimir Putin, etc, ect.

25. the FBI and the Bush administration had no information regarding an attack on the World Trade Center then why was the FBI inspecting the WTC complex with bomb sniffing dogs on September 10th 2001?

26. Who is the 9/11 commission? Who were the put together by? Has their book "the 9/11 commission report" been discredited by many authors claiming numerous ommissions and distortions?

27. Which hijackers have been positively identified by DNA? Is the FBI in possession of DNA samples for all of the hijackers?

28. Air traffic controllers knew Flight AA 11 had been hijacked by 8:20 a.m. at the latest. By 8:46, when the first plane crashed into the World Trade Center, at least one and possibly two other hijackings were known to be underway. The Federal Aviation Administration had established an open line on the ongoing hijackings with the Secret Service, the White House, NORAD and the Pentagon. Yet George W. Bush, who started the day in Sarasota, Florida, later claimed he thought the first crash was due to pilot error! And this despite the warnings he had received since August of imminent hijackings in the United States. Did no one think to inform the President of what was really happening? Apparently not. After the first crash, Bush and his large entourage of staff and security did not react to the ongoing attacks. They instead continued driving to a Florida elementary school, arriving there shortly before 9 a.m. for a scheduled photo opportunity.

29. How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation''s capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?

30. suspicious monetary transactions worth hundreds of millions were conducted through offices at the Twin Towers during the actual attacks.
Initial reports on these trades were suppressed and forgotten, and only years later did the 9/11 Commission and SEC provide a partial, but untenable explanation for only a small number of transactions (covering only the airline put options through the Chicago Board of Exchange).

POSSIBLE MOTIVES



ok, i think ive scratched the surface for now. Enjoy you crazy kids.

You want to know who did it?? You better be sure your ready to hear the truth. It's gonna hurt. But deep inside, you probably already know. And Bush and Cheney didn't plan anything, didn't even think it could happen......they just left the back doors open.

[Drunk]

You want to know who did it?? You better be sure your ready to hear the truth. It's gonna hurt. But deep inside, you probably already know. And Bush and Cheney didn't plan anything, didn't even think it could happen......they just left the back doors open.

whats your take?

[Drunk]

Also, can one of you mods kindly fix the title of this thread, its bugging the heck out of me.

thank you.

[Devo]

You want to know who did it?? You better be sure your ready to hear the truth. It's gonna hurt. But deep inside, you probably already know. And Bush and Cheney didn't plan anything, didn't even think it could happen......they just left the back doors open.

You have my attention...

[munciesweep]

You have my attention...

lol...........

[h8raidernation]

i feel 100% certain we needed the first GTP 9/11 thread.

As far as the map, i just thought it was weird.

I believe you.

But are you going to to tell me we dont have fighters that ARE ready for this? Not from those bases specifically, but dont we have a protocol? Or are we just shit out of luck if we need to shoot down a plane. even if its an hour later? Even if its headed towards the pentagon? Even with 45 minutes notice?

Even in a war zone there is prepping that has to go on for helos and planes. Int he states you have to add to it to make sure airspace is clear also, you can;t just send jets to NY from DC. Even if you could fly straight there, NY is probably around 250 miles from DC. If you average 1,000 mph you get there 15 min after all these checks.

[h8raidernation]

Hey, become a Catholic!
Reconciliation is always available no matter what you've done.
Pretty sweet deal.

Unless you didn't attend church the week before.

[h8raidernation]

7. Bush spent a lot of time with 'My Pet Goat' and the 6th grade class after hearing about the attack. Why was he not considered a possible target of the terrorists? Bush and his entourage were still in the school at 9:32 a.m., 45 minutes after the first WTC crash, 27 minutes after the second crash, and 10 minutes before the Pentagon was hit. This was when Bush delivered his first statement on the attacks, live on national television, from the school!

Bush's protection squad did a whole sweep of Ft Hood and had snipers son the rooftops when he flew in and landed at Ft Hood, the largest US Military Installation in the world. If they do it at Ft Hood, I'm sure they did it at that school.

Also, like someone mentioned earlier, it takes a lot fo people o coordinate an attack like that, aside from the fact that soemone might leak it, there is also the chance that someone might think that they are absolutely crazy and say no. the odds of that many Americans going along with it are pretty slim.

And, how many people think Bush is smart enough to pull something like this off?

[munciesweep]

I read the possible motives and watched the Ultimate Con YouTube flick about the secondary explosions, but I'm still not convinced.

There would be other ways to achieve those ends (the motives listed in Post #2).
I'm by no means trying to suggest the United States Government is honest and upfront with the public. I may be an optomist, but I'm not idiotic:rolleyes:
I am fully aware the government is doing everything it can to put the best spin on EVERYTHING. Again, I'm trusting, but I'm drinking the Kool-Aide.

If the government wanted any and all of those ends listed in Post #2, there are other ways to get them without ramming jet airliners into office buildings.

And just because there were secondary explosions does not mean the government put them there.
It could have been an inside job in the fact whoever did this (al Queda, Suadi Arabia, etc.) was able to get a janitor/carpenter/worker (or two or three or ten) into the WTC and rig the explosives or simply park a van in the parking garage like they tried to do back in 199?.

Don't assume I think the government is being honest about what happened on 9/11. But I'm not convinced the government did this to its own people on its own soil. I just think (hope/pray:o) the United States Government has more regard for its citizens than to kill more than 3,000 innocent civillians for
such small gains. An attack could have been planned in Canada/England/Australia - any 'friendly' country - with the same effect and not kill your own citizens. A hijacked airlplane could have been taken in the US and then crashed anywhere else. Some other sort of attack could have happened with a lot less 'colateral damage,' so to speak. It just doesn't make sense to me why the US would purposefully blow up the WTCs? Because it was mad the buildings were privatized? I'm not buying that one minute.

Why would someone do it??? Because they could. And last time I looked, the CIA and MOSSAD are not part of our Government;). We (the US people) are just stock holders in the CIA, NASA, FBI and IRS. Not one of the 4 is a government agency.
Our "leaders"are not working for us, the American people.....they are working towards one goal, and that is to have a one world government/religion/monetary system. They will kill our economy, the people will be begging "please, help us".......and then it will happen.
You can scoff, this off anyway you like, but we are the United States of Israel, and and off-shoot of the British monarchy, well.......time has come to ope all borders, become the NAU, and slowly join the rest of the world as one big family.

[munciesweep]

Why would someone do it??? Because they could. And last time I looked, the CIA and MOSSAD are not part of our Government;). We (the US people) are just stock holders in the CIA, NASA, FBI and IRS. Not one of the 4 is a government agency.
Our "leaders"are not working for us, the American people.....they are working towards one goal, and that is to have a one world government/religion/monetary system. They will kill our economy, the people will be begging "please, help us".......and then it will happen.
You can scoff, this off anyway you like, but we are the United States of Israel, and and off-shoot of the British monarchy, well.......time has come to open all borders, become the NAU, and slowly join the rest of the world as one big family.

No one has a problem with that?? I sure as fuck do. Losing American sovereignty is the last step to becoming a part of the NWO.

[DesertBoltFanII]

i feel 100% certain we needed the first GTP 9/11 thread.

As far as the map, i just thought it was weird.

I believe you.

But are you going to to tell me we dont have fighters that ARE ready for this? Not from those bases specifically, but dont we have a protocol? Or are we just shit out of luck if we need to shoot down a plane. even if its an hour later? Even if its headed towards the pentagon? Even with 45 minutes notice?


Luis, that map is one of the things that I have trouble with when folks that believe it was an inside job use it and other things as evidence.
I believe 100% that those red dots are military bases. But what kind? Like Dave said very few have fighters. I'd like to see a listing of each one of those bases. I'll bet they are made up of National Guard armories, Coast Guard stations, training areas, weapon storage areas, yes and even a actual air base or two, but the people that print that off leave out the very details that (PARDON THE PUN) shot down their evidence. But as Dave said we were at peace, no ready alert fighters standing by 24 hours a day armed and waiting for an attack of any kind. It aint like loading a shot gun and going into the woods. The evidence you provide and others have completely do there intended purpose and ask questions and get people to ask questions. But it seems that like your map it falls short of actual proof that no one reacted on purpose.

But if I were looking for evidence to make my case that it was an inside job I'd post that map and say, "See, they flew right over our air bases and military posts because Cheney told them to stand down." And anyone that doesn't know better would be swayed into believing that as well.

So to me the answer to that question is let see what types of military bases they were. But even then it isn't realistic to think we can act instantly to a threat. I have been on many Army and Air Force bases mostly in the 80's early 90's, at a time when we had much more to fear from a nuclear powered Soviet Union and I never once saw one anti-aircraft battery (missles) armed and ready for an attack from a country that actually had it's own planes to attack us with and didn't have to hijack anything.
I fact, when ever we used LIVE ammo it was done under the strickest control, every round had to be accounted for, and safety was strickly enforced. See Americans don't like it when our military flys around over head loaded with live ordance. ( See the recent nukes that were mistakenly flown across America )
Oh shit I may have started something new.:D

[DesertBoltFanII]

Question 13 has always fascinated me.

The "Inside Job" folks always say it is impossible for those buildings to collapse as they did. And although I printed a story writen by the man that designed the buildings, and he clearly explains why they did collapse that is ignored. Ok fine, whatever. Here's my question.

How come the tower that is hit second is the first one to collapse?

First tower was hit and burning for what 30, 40 minutes before the second plane hits?

First tower is struck on about the 101st floor I believe and the second was hit at I believe the 90th floor ( maybe lower, someone can tell us I'm sure)and yet it collapses first, hmmm. Couldn't be that the additional weight from the floors above had anything to do with it?
Naw, it was blown up.

Those little puffs of smoke that are pointed out in every video of the collapse as evidence of explosives? Try a little experiment.
Take a foam cup, turn it upside down and place it rim first in some flour or powder. then smack the top of it with your hand just hard enough to collapse it suddenly and see what happens to the powder. Like it or not building are full of air, as is the inside of the cup, when force is brought down on it the air must go somewhere correct? We see that effect in the form of blown out windows from the pressure inside the building as it collapses. Notice those puffs are happening just after the buildings start to collapse onto themselves, and not as a prelude to the collapse as we have all seen on TV a hundred times when they demolish building with explosives. Those controlled demolishens we see dozens of small explosions first followed by the building collapsing. Why would you need to blow the thing up when it is already falling down?


I can't answer the PNAC and secret Cheney missions but I have no doubt they exist, it obvious because they don't try real hard to hide it. I have no doubt they plan for and planned for all manner of events that could happen to the US. Shouldn't there be someone doing this?

As far as tracking the planes and not finding them. I'm no expert on air traffic in the US but I have flown out of Logan International in Boston before and it is safe for me to say that the eastern seaboard is by far the busiest area in the nation for air traffic. I would have to believe that at any one time in a day there must be literally thousands of flights in and around that 4 or 5 state area the military map showed. Also, they turned off their transponders and were flying low and very fast. Dave may know this to be fact but I believe the civilian radar and air traffic controls are far less capable then military air tracking of planes. Air Force uses AWACs airborn tracking, and I strongly doubt any AWACs were in the air that day.

The hijackers sitting back in Saudi Arabia I have never seen, of course I don't watch the BBC so I wouldn't have. But I would almost guess that that would be a very big story to cover even for our Bush loving media (right Oz?). I'd sure think that it would be reported somewhere. I watch many news channels, I read 4 different newspapers but can't seem to find it.

I guess the bottomline is for me, with the cry for Bush to be impeach all over the place for lying about Iraq and going to war there, why isn't he being arrested and charged with the murder of 3,000 people? Don't cop out and say it is the media, that's bullshit they don't like him. Don't tell me he is this all powerful genius either, who will take over the world. The fucking guy can't tie his own shoes for Christ sakes, come on people.

Rumsfeld was on the otherside of the Pentagon when it hit. Guilty. Plane happens to hit newly reinforced area of the Pentagon. Guilty. WTC7 ordered taken down by the buidlings owner (what did he say? "Let it go." to the firefighters that battled the fucker all day). Guilty.
Bush is told about the attacks and stays at the school, (most likely because the Secret Service told him to stay there.) Guilty.
Warren Buffet (who isn't a big Bush supporter) has a party at a SAC airbase. Probably planned months in advance and just happen to be 9/11, just like the millions of people born on 9/11 that had birthday parties planned for that day. Guilty.
Cheney and the Secret Service and others play war games on that day. On a day when the President is out of town they prepare for a possible Vice President having to take over scenario, I'd think we all would want every President and Vice President to play these games once in a while. Sounds like a reasonable time to play those games to me, to bad it was 9/11 because we can't buy the coincidence. Guilty.

[munciesweep]

Question 13 has always fascinated me.

The "Inside Job" folks always say it is impossible for those buildings to collapse as they did. And although I printed a story writen by the man that designed the buildings, and he clearly explains why they did collapse that is ignored. Ok fine, whatever. Here's my question.

How come the tower that is hit second is the first one to collapse?

First tower was hit and burning for what 30, 40 minutes before the second plane hits?

First tower is struck on about the 101st floor I believe and the second was hit at I believe the 90th floor ( maybe lower, someone can tell us I'm sure)and yet it collapses first, hmmm. Couldn't be that the additional weight from the floors above had anything to do with it?
Naw, it was blown up.

Those little puffs of smoke that are pointed out in every video of the collapse as evidence of explosives? Try a little experiment.
Take a foam cup, turn it upside down and place it rim first in some flour or powder. then smack the top of it with your hand just hard enough to collapse it suddenly and see what happens to the powder. Like it or not building are full of air, as is the inside of the cup, when force is brought down on it the air must go somewhere correct? We see that effect in the form of blown out windows from the pressure inside the building as it collapses. Notice those puffs are happening just after the buildings start to collapse onto themselves, and not as a prelude to the collapse as we have all seen on TV a hundred times when they demolish building with explosives. Those controlled demolishens we see dozens of small explosions first followed by the building collapsing. Why would you need to blow the thing up when it is already falling down?


I can't answer the PNAC and secret Cheney missions but I have no doubt they exist, it obvious because they don't try real hard to hide it. I have no doubt they plan for and planned for all manner of events that could happen to the US. Shouldn't there be someone doing this?

As far as tracking the planes and not finding them. I'm no expert on air traffic in the US but I have flown out of Logan International in Boston before and it is safe for me to say that the eastern seaboard is by far the busiest area in the nation for air traffic. I would have to believe that at any one time in a day there must be literally thousands of flights in and around that 4 or 5 state area the military map showed. Also, they turned off their transponders and were flying low and very fast. Dave may know this to be fact but I believe the civilian radar and air traffic controls are far less capable then military air tracking of planes. Air Force uses AWACs airborn tracking, and I strongly doubt any AWACs were in the air that day.

The hijackers sitting back in Saudi Arabia I have never seen, of course I don't watch the BBC so I wouldn't have. But I would almost guess that that would be a very big story to cover even for our Bush loving media (right Oz?). I'd sure think that it would be reported somewhere. I watch many news channels, I read 4 different newspapers but can't seem to find it.

I guess the bottomline is for me, with the cry for Bush to be impeach all over the place for lying about Iraq and going to war there, why isn't he being arrested and charged with the murder of 3,000 people? Don't cop out and say it is the media, that's bullshit they don't like him. Don't tell me he is this all powerful genius either, who will take over the world. The fucking guy can't tie his own shoes for Christ sakes, come on people.

Rumsfeld was on the otherside of the Pentagon when it hit. Guilty. Plane happens to hit newly reinforced area of the Pentagon. Guilty. WTC7 ordered taken down by the buidlings owner (what did he say? "Let it go." to the firefighters that battled the fucker all day). Guilty.
Bush is told about the attacks and stays at the school, (most likely because the Secret Service told him to stay there.) Guilty.
Warren Buffet (who isn't a big Bush supporter) has a party at a SAC airbase. Probably planned months in advance and just happen to be 9/11, just like the millions of people born on 9/11 that had birthday parties planned for that day. Guilty.
Cheney and the Secret Service and others play war games on that day. On a day when the President is out of town they prepare for a possible Vice President having to take over scenario, I'd think we all would want every President and Vice President to play these games once in a while. Sounds like a reasonable time to play those games to me, to bad it was 9/11 because we can't buy the coincidence. Guilty.

The WTC construction project manager said 2 months before the towers were hit that the building was designed to absorb MULTI plane hits. And as for the pancaking, a building that pancakes doesn't fall at free fall speed, they fell at the speed of gravity, and thats impossible. Listen to what the WTC manager of construction had to say, BEFORE the attacks......
YouTube - Justice For 9/11 (Part 1)

[DesertBoltFanII]

I watched it and listened to the whole thing. What should we expect from the Construction Manager? Should we expect him to say the building he built wasn't safe afterall? That a hi speed collision with planes will or could cause the building to collapse? Try selling office space after that announcement.

Said we should have seen the middle steel structure if the floors pancake on top of eachother but we don't, then it says we see some of the middle steel structure but it also gets brought down. What is it? Did it stand as they said it should only to collapse after the other parts did or did it collapse at the same time? How strong is the middle structure suppose to be? Is the steel used in that center section stronger then any other steel in the world and should have stood up to 110 stories of rubble piling up at it's bottom and not be bent, twisted, or broken? Run your car into a wall at 10 MPH ( That isn't real fast) look at the metal your car is built with and the effects of only a 10 MPH wreck. Christ, nothing is perfect. Titanic wasn't suppose to sink, but it did.
By the way, remember the 6 or 7 firemen and the old lady they were bring down the stairs that got to the 6th floor when the building came down and were saved because they were in that middle section? Sounds like it stood up somewhat to me, wouldn't we all agree? Didn't hear that brought up in the video.

I can't believe they would compare a WWII bomber fitting the ESB to modern passenger jets hitting the WTC. The buildings of that time were much more densly built then the WTC. They were concrete reinforced steel structures from outside in. The WTC was built in a revolutionary way. We see it in the diagram showing how the floors would collapse. The strength of the WTC was on the outside steel facing, and the middle core, the floor were literally one piece connected to the inside steel wall on hangers connected to the outter surface of the buildings and to the middle core. The floors were light weight and NOT steel beam supported as nearly all high rise buildings are. Not being heavy steel beams holding up each floor, when the planes hit and took out several floors at once and weakening it, then the fires and the heat worked on warping the light weight steel that did hold up the floors, warping them until the fell off the hangers they were connected to by steel bolts and nuts. With the help of gravity and weight from the floors above, heat from the fires (that regardless of what this man said were still raging inside the building) the floors buckled, taking everyone and everything with it.
Don't think the fires are still burning as they fell? Why is there still smoke pouring out of the buildings even as they are collapsing? Fire causes smoke right? That is something I believe we all can agree upon.

I'm sorry I can't share all the theories that some of you do. I have nothing against anyone that does and I to want to know everything. I just can't get past the people that clearly have something other then the truth as their motivation. The title of the video?
"Justice for 9/11"

Wasn't that Afghanistan and going after Bin Laden?

Not according to these folks, justice hasn't been handed out yet.

Where is the video giving someone, anyone a chance to rebut the claims of a conspiracy?

You all want a so called fair exchange of the facts but all we see is the side with the fingers pointing everywhere. You all claim to want to know the truth but it sure appears you stop looking and asking when you strike upon the theory that matches your own. Honestly, I have not investigated it as some have, I believe I could add 30 some odd points on here to back up the so called "official version" but what good would that do? It would only show me doing what some here are doing and that is showing one side and not the other.
My conclusion are my own, my own common sense and average intelligence, and knowing a little bit about some of the aspect of this like construction, military, etc. I don't have all the answers and that is why I chose to answer some of the questions Luis raised. I don't know about secret government agencies and how was where and for what reason, or why the hijacker turned his plane to hit the Pentagon. All though it was said he was looking for the White House or Capitol Building as his original target. If you have ever flown into Washington DC calmly and not flying the plane yourself looking to hit a building, it is pretty hard to find those buildings (especially the White House) But the largest building in the world (Pentagon) that is clearly recognizable from the air and is on the outskirts of Washington would make for a good target if I were a terrorist. Anyone consider that as the logical reason for the turn? Or is it easier to understand a conspiracy?

A fair exchange of ideas is point and counter point sharing, not this agenda based videos and documentaries that are nothing but fueling the hate in this country. Don't believe it, don't believe there is hate? Go back and read every political thread from top to bottom. I'm part of the problem as well.

Hell, look at the name of this thread. How about we called it, " Lets discuss the 9/11 incident". Luis, in all your investigating this you never once came across anything from the official story that you found true or at least convincing to you?

Same question for anyone that has looked into this? I'm curious to hear if anyone has, because maybe we can build on that.

Look I know you guys all have your hearts in the right place and you aren't a bunch of wack jobs. God bless.

[Ramerica]

9/11 was the day that the USA became a successful target for the new terrorist organisations. I can't really see that there are too many people to blame for the attack outside the hijackers and the funders/ planners behind them.

However:

It's also worth considering how things got to the state where there is so much hate in the World to commit an act like this. How the perps were trained. Why they felt that their actions were justified.

The West, and the US as the big guy in the West, had a significant influence on the conditions that created the sense of injustice that caused the attack. Governments always seem to work to their own agendas - regardless of nation or political persuassion - and rarely act for the sole purpose of improving the lot of their people.

So, I doubt that 9/11 was an inside job.

Failing to finish the job in Afghanistan is the crime for me. Dropping all of the troops involved in Iraq searching for zero WMD's would have seen the job done in 6 months. Stringing Bin Laden up by his scrote would have been accepted by the World. Iraq is unlikely to finish well. Neither is Afghanistan.

But it should have been so different.

[DesertBoltFanII]

9/11 was the day that the USA became a successful target for the new terrorist organisations. I can't really see that there are too many people to blame for the attack outside the hijackers and the funders/ planners behind them.

However:

It's also worth considering how things got to the state where there is so much hate in the World to commit an act like this. How the perps were trained. Why they felt that their actions were justified.

The West, and the US as the big guy in the West, had a significant influence on the conditions that created the sense of injustice that caused the attack. Governments always seem to work to their own agendas - regardless of nation or political persuassion - and rarely act for the sole purpose of improving the lot of their people.

So, I doubt that 9/11 was an inside job.

Failing to finish the job in Afghanistan is the crime for me. Dropping all of the troops involved in Iraq searching for zero WMD's would have seen the job done in 6 months. Stringing Bin Laden up by his scrote would have been accepted by the World. Iraq is unlikely to finish well. Neither is Afghanistan.

But it should have been so different.


100% agree Andy. I don't dismiss alll these claims by people and infact I truly find them fascinating. But as I mentioned we never get both sides, and only with both sides can one make a true and honest evaluation of the whole issue.
And again we all agree on the Iraq thing.

[munciesweep]

9/11 was the day that the USA became a successful target for the new terrorist organisations. I can't really see that there are too many people to blame for the attack outside the hijackers and the funders/ planners behind them.

However:

It's also worth considering how things got to the state where there is so much hate in the World to commit an act like this. How the perps were trained. Why they felt that their actions were justified.

The West, and the US as the big guy in the West, had a significant influence on the conditions that created the sense of injustice that caused the attack. Governments always seem to work to their own agendas - regardless of nation or political persuassion - and rarely act for the sole purpose of improving the lot of their people.

So, I doubt that 9/11 was an inside job.

Failing to finish the job in Afghanistan is the crime for me. Dropping all of the troops involved in Iraq searching for zero WMD's would have seen the job done in 6 months. Stringing Bin Laden up by his scrote would have been accepted by the World. Iraq is unlikely to finish well. Neither is Afghanistan.

But it should have been so different.

Sooo, you don't think the 7 7 bombings were an inside job, either?? Or that the bomber worked for the MI5???
Ram......what do you think of David Icke?? Or Terence Mann? Whack jobs??

[munciesweep]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=oblio

[Boltfan of Oz]

9/11 was the day that the USA became a successful target for the new terrorist organisations. I can't really see that there are too many people to blame for the attack outside the hijackers and the funders/ planners behind them.

However:

It's also worth considering how things got to the state where there is so much hate in the World to commit an act like this. How the perps were trained. Why they felt that their actions were justified.

The West, and the US as the big guy in the West, had a significant influence on the conditions that created the sense of injustice that caused the attack. Governments always seem to work to their own agendas - regardless of nation or political persuassion - and rarely act for the sole purpose of improving the lot of their people.

So, I doubt that 9/11 was an inside job.

Failing to finish the job in Afghanistan is the crime for me. Dropping all of the troops involved in Iraq searching for zero WMD's would have seen the job done in 6 months. Stringing Bin Laden up by his scrote would have been accepted by the World. Iraq is unlikely to finish well. Neither is Afghanistan.

But it should have been so different.

Afghanistan was a fucking joke too. Taliban was proving to be a less than completely subservient partner in the oil pipeline ventures of the US...so the US and the coalition of the coerced went off to "bomb them back into the Stone Age"...it's OK though! All the dead children are worth it if it's about fighting terrorism! Even when it's not!

Hell, if it was about finding one boogy man and unloading rage and vengenance, the US would have picked an easier to fly to place, like Canada (those fuckers harbored White House burning Brits, ya know)

[munciesweep]

Afghanistan was a fucking joke too. Taliban was proving to be a less than completely subservient partner in the oil pipeline ventures of the US...so the US and the coalition of the coerced went off to "bomb them back into the Stone Age"...it's OK though! All the dead children are worth it if it's about fighting terrorism! Even when it's not!

Hell, if it was about finding one boogy man and unloading rage and vengenance, the US would have picked an easier to fly to place, like Canada (those fuckers harbored White House burning Brits, ya know)

They were not to cooperative with the Poppy fields, either.

[Boltfan of Oz]

They were not to cooperative with the Poppy fields, either.

heheh....reminds me of the Rage Against the Machine song, "Guerrilla Radio where it says, "More for Gore or the son of a drug lord -None of the above fuck it cut the cord"

funny that so many US Americans believe that corporate profit, CIA drug running and the shills in the executive/legislative branches who walk through the revolving doors allowing it, are somehow not related to foreign policy...terror and bad guys terror and bad guys terror and bad guys.

[Ramerica]

Sooo, you don't think the 7 7 bombings were an inside job, either?? Or that the bomber worked for the MI5???
Ram......what do you think of David Icke?? Or Terence Mann? Whack jobs??

The London Bombings were unlikely to be anything to do with MI5. Terrorism has a different impact over here. It makes us more interested in our values and rights rather than less. We are also kind of used to bad stuff happening over many years so you kind of shrug and get on with things.

There are some bad people in the UK preaching all kinds of hate. Sometimes people fall for it and then get caught. We'll see where it finishes ....

But to be honest, as long as you can get a decent curry and there's plenty of money from the Middle East floating about things will move on.

Icke was an ex-sports presenter and goal keeper for Hereford Town.

If he is the messiah then I'm the Virgin Mary. The man's a fruit loop. Who wears turquoise as a fashion statement???

As for Terrence Mann - who knows? Who is he and what does he do?

[h8raidernation]

Why would someone do it??? Because they could. And last time I looked, the CIA and MOSSAD are not part of our Government;). We (the US people) are just stock holders in the CIA, NASA, FBI and IRS. Not one of the 4 is a government agency.
Our "leaders"are not working for us, the American people.....they are working towards one goal, and that is to have a one world government/religion/monetary system. They will kill our economy, the people will be begging "please, help us".......and then it will happen.
You can scoff, this off anyway you like, but we are the United States of Israel, and and off-shoot of the British monarchy, well.......time has come to ope all borders, become the NAU, and slowly join the rest of the world as one big family.

We can't be the NAU, if you pronounce that "now" then it sounds temporary.

[h8raidernation]

Titanic wasn't suppose to sink, but it did.

I like it. BTW are you trying ot say that the building you work in can't survive the impact of a large f'ing plane going a couple hundred mph? You might want to find another place to work then.

[h8raidernation]

those fuckers harbored White House burning Brits, ya know)

Damn Brits :p

[DesertBoltFanII]

I like it. BTW are you trying ot say that the building you work in can't survive the impact of a large f'ing plane going a couple hundred mph? You might want to find another place to work then.


I don't work in an office building but my car wouldn't survive it either.:D

[Drunk]

Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel

By Haaretz Service and Reuters

Tags: Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu

The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.

"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

Netanyahu reportedly made the comments during a conference at Bar-Ilan University on the division of Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians.


Meanwhile, Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad cast doubt over the veracity of the September 11 attacks Thursday, calling it a pretext to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

"Four or five years ago, a suspicious event occurred in New York. A building collapsed and they said that 3,000 people had been killed but never published their names," Ahmadinejad told Iranians in the holy city of Qom.

"Under this pretext, they [the U.S.] attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and since then, a million people have been killed only in Iraq."

Speaking Wednesday at a news conference on the Iran threat, Netanyahu compared Ahmadinejad to Adolf Hitler and likened Tehran's nuclear program to the threat the Nazis posed to Europe in the late 1930s.

Netanyahu said Iran differed from the Nazis in one vital respect, explaining that "where that [Nazi] regime embarked on a global conflict before it developed nuclear weapons," he said. "This regime [Iran] is developing nuclear weapons before it embarks on a global conflict."

[Boltfan of Oz]

Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel

By Haaretz Service and Reuters

Tags: Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu

The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.

"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

Netanyahu reportedly made the comments during a conference at Bar-Ilan University on the division of Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians.


Meanwhile, Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad cast doubt over the veracity of the September 11 attacks Thursday, calling it a pretext to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

"Four or five years ago, a suspicious event occurred in New York. A building collapsed and they said that 3,000 people had been killed but never published their names," Ahmadinejad told Iranians in the holy city of Qom.

"Under this pretext, they [the U.S.] attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and since then, a million people have been killed only in Iraq."

Speaking Wednesday at a news conference on the Iran threat, Netanyahu compared Ahmadinejad to Adolf Hitler and likened Tehran's nuclear program to the threat the Nazis posed to Europe in the late 1930s.

Netanyahu said Iran differed from the Nazis in one vital respect, explaining that "where that [Nazi] regime embarked on a global conflict before it developed nuclear weapons," he said. "This regime [Iran] is developing nuclear weapons before it embarks on a global conflict."

While Netanyahu is explaining how Iran differs from Nazis in one vital respect, maybe he can explain how many similiarities his country shares with Nazis

[Drunk]

It should be noted that the victims list has in fact been published. Im not sure how accurate it is.

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm

[munciesweep]

While Netanyahu is explaining how Iran differs from Nazis in one vital respect, maybe he can explain how many similiarities his country shares with Nazis

This fuck is so paranoid right about now......as he should be. He just can't wait to start the bombings. Jimmy Carter came out with an interesting piece regarding this conflict yesterday.........

Carter embraces Hamas official

JERUSALEM - Former president Jimmy Carter angered Israel's government yesterday by embracing a Hamas politician during a visit to the West Bank, ignoring Israeli and US designation of the Islamic militants as a terror group.

Israel accused Carter, the broker of the first Arab-Israeli peace accord, of "dignifying" extremists. But Carter vowed to meet Hamas' supreme leader this week in Syria.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2008/04/16/carter_embraces_hamas_official/