Homeland Security.,"show me zee papers"!!!

[munciesweep]

How would it feel to live in a "police state"?? Here is a start......"VE NEED TO SEE ZEE PAPERS"!!! , .."No you don't......fuck yourself"!!!! :D

HOMELAND SECURITY ......running drills and exorcises in obedience training 101, coming to a city near you. Soon.

YouTube - DHS Checkpoint Video Blog Day 5: The Gang's All Here

YouTube - Homeland Security Checkpoint: Video Blog - Day 1

[Boltfan of Oz]

Munce, you commie!

You need to be detained in the back of a patrol car by a handsome cop who'll brake for imaginary dogs until you gain some love for men in uniform.

[munciesweep]

Munce, you commie!

You need to be detained in the back of a patrol car by a handsome cop who'll brake for imaginary dogs until you gain some love for men in uniform.

Dude......you do not know how close you just captured one of my youthful run-ins with the local Vegas PD.......About a month after I moved here, a cop about belt high first broke my thumb (once I was cuffed and frisked in a rather erotic fashion) and drove me around the back streets of Vegas checking his breaks for a good hour....then politely un-cuffed me and let me go with a warning NEVER to Jay-walk downtown again.....110% true story!! lmao........dude must have weighed in at about a buck 30, 5'2" ....old Officer Foundledmysack. :( :p

[munciesweep]

Munce, you commie!

You need to be detained in the back of a patrol car by a handsome cop who'll brake for imaginary dogs until you gain some love for men in uniform.

Recognize the voice on those videos??

[Boltfan of Oz]

Dude......you do not know how close you just captured one of my youthful run-ins with the local Vegas PD.......About a month after I moved here, a cop about belt high first broke my thumb (once I was cuffed and frisked in a rather erotic fashion) and drove me around the back streets of Vegas checking his breaks for a good hour....then politely un-cuffed me and let me go with a warning NEVER to Jay-walk downtown again.....110% true story!! lmao........dude must have weighed in at about a buck 30, 5'2" ....old Officer Foundledmysack. :( :p

I stole that from a Des true story...he came away with a different feeling than you did

[Boltfan of Oz]

Recognize the voice on those videos??

i do... but can't place it...so..who is it?

[munciesweep]

I stole that from a Des true story...he came away with a different feeling than you did

About what part, the groping?? lmao.......

[munciesweep]

i do... but can't place it...so..who is it?

I can't place it, either. :confused:

[Boltfan of Oz]

I can't place it, either. :confused:

he's known as a celebrity by the cops taking his picture...so I'd guess it's either some guy who has made it well known to agents his intentions or a traditional well-known celeb

[RJones61]

Dude......you do not know how close you just captured one of my youthful run-ins with the local Vegas PD.......About a month after I moved here, a cop about belt high first broke my thumb (once I was cuffed and frisked in a rather erotic fashion) and drove me around the back streets of Vegas checking his breaks for a good hour....then politely un-cuffed me and let me go with a warning NEVER to Jay-walk downtown again.....110% true story!! lmao........dude must have weighed in at about a buck 30, 5'2" ....old Officer Foundledmysack. :( :p

Did you ride in the backseat of this guys patrol car???


http://citizenchris.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/02/villagepeoplecop_2.jpg

[RJones61]

GEEZ...the 1st video kinda looks like a Tailgate party....Looked like the guys were getting ready to get a game of Spades going

[munciesweep]

Did you ride in the backseat of this guys patrol car???


http://citizenchris.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/02/villagepeoplecop_2.jpg

In your wettest dreams Jones!!! :p

[munciesweep]

he's known as a celebrity by the cops taking his picture...so I'd guess it's either some guy who has made it well known to agents his intentions or a traditional well-known celeb

No......you have heard his voice before, I will wager money on that....:D

ps........no, its not.

[munciesweep]

GEEZ...the 1st video kinda looks like a Tailgate party....Looked like the guys were getting ready to get a game of Spades going

Looks like a Mayberry RFD HS group on trainees walking around with their thumbs in their collective ass's, getting goofed on........:p

(You tell the tough ones by their notorious village people-cop mustaches, or semen specimen receptacles) :eek::D:p

[RJones61]

I think I saw this sticker plastered on the side of their cars...They are not Immigration

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/DES/D809~Griffith-Fife-Security-Agency-Posters.jpg

[LABoltFan]

These videos are supposed to make me worry about losing my civil liberties or living in a police state? If anything this just shows how little authority these agents have. They didnt ask for any "papers", they didnt ask for any ID and they didnt even have the guy detained which was his obvious end goal. It looked like the guy could have practically hurled a loogie in their faces and they wouldnt have been able to do a thing about it. Even in an airport you are required to show a passport when coming in from out of the country and all they are doing here is asking your counrty of citizenship. Are we really comparing this to nazi germany? :rolleyes: These videos did a good job of showing exactly how little power these agents have though.

[Ramerica]

Try entering the US as an alien.

They ask all kinds of stuff.

Have you been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude?
Do you have any contagious diseases?
Are you a drug addict?
Do you plan to overthrow the US Government?
Are you a terrorist?
Are you a war criminal?

And they want pictures and finger prints for some reason!

[munciesweep]

These videos are supposed to make me worry about losing my civil liberties or living in a police state? If anything this just shows how little authority these agents have. They didnt ask for any "papers", they didnt ask for any ID and they didnt even have the guy detained which was his obvious end goal. It looked like the guy could have practically hurled a loogie in their faces and they wouldnt have been able to do a thing about it. Even in an airport you are required to show a passport when coming in from out of the country and all they are doing here is asking your counrty of citizenship. Are we really comparing this to nazi germany? :rolleyes: These videos did a good job of showing exactly how little power these agents have though.

That was kind of the point....hence the "obedience 101" ;)
I know you knew that, just re-affirming!

[munciesweep]

I think I saw this sticker plastered on the side of their cars...They are not Immigration

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/DES/D809~Griffith-Fife-Security-Agency-Posters.jpg

lmfaorotff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:megaroftl:

[munciesweep]

Try entering the US as an alien.

They ask all kinds of stuff.

Have you been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude?
Do you have any contagious diseases?
Are you a drug addict?
Do you plan to overthrow the US Government?
Are you a terrorist?
Are you a war criminal?

And they want pictures and finger prints for some reason!

Your kidding, right?? I'm a bit thick at times..sooo, they really don't, right??

[Ramerica]

http://www.immihelp.com/visas/i-94w.html

This is the old form.

I'll check the new one on Tuesday (they have a copy in the in-flight magazines on airlines).

[SonofaBolt]

Dude......you do not know how close you just captured one of my youthful run-ins with the local Vegas PD.......About a month after I moved here, a cop about belt high first broke my thumb (once I was cuffed and frisked in a rather erotic fashion) and drove me around the back streets of Vegas checking his breaks for a good hour....then politely un-cuffed me and let me go with a warning NEVER to Jay-walk downtown again.....110% true story!! lmao........dude must have weighed in at about a buck 30, 5'2" ....old Officer Foundledmysack. :( :p
Dude! If you want to file a complaint...

http://www.latinoreview.com/news/images/user/Dangle911.PNG.png

He moved on to Reno

[munciesweep]

Dude! If you want to file a complaint...

http://www.latinoreview.com/news/images/user/Dangle911.PNG.png

He moved on to Reno

Pretty damn close..:eek:...My hand to god!!

[munciesweep]

http://www.immihelp.com/visas/i-94w.html

This is the old form.

I'll check the new one on Tuesday (they have a copy in the in-flight magazines on airlines).

Wow............just, wow. Thanks man, and please if you can I would love to read the other.

[DesertBoltFanII]

Munce, you commie!

You need to be detained in the back of a patrol car by a handsome cop who'll brake for imaginary dogs until you gain some love for men in uniform.



Glad you still remember that. That is sound advice coming from you.

[DesertBoltFanII]

Dude......you do not know how close you just captured one of my youthful run-ins with the local Vegas PD.......About a month after I moved here, a cop about belt high first broke my thumb (once I was cuffed and frisked in a rather erotic fashion) and drove me around the back streets of Vegas checking his breaks for a good hour....then politely un-cuffed me and let me go with a warning NEVER to Jay-walk downtown again.....110% true story!! lmao........dude must have weighed in at about a buck 30, 5'2" ....old Officer Foundledmysack. :( :p

See Oz, more then one of us has had this treatment. They must teach that in the academy. Along with shooting drunken NFL players.

[DesertBoltFanII]

I stole that from a Des true story...he came away with a different feeling than you did



Yes, I did in deed.
I know I should have done the right thing like you Oz and continued blaming the cops for doing their job, not take responsibility for my own behavior, a behavior that triggered a response by the cop, a message sending response. I should had let it take me down a life long road of hate and suspicion for any and all authority, even though I was the one that caused it. I should have let it jade me for life and cause me to pass that hate, anger, and loathing on to my kids so they can become the next generation of anti authority whiners.

Yep, that is what I should have done instead of getting the message and reflecting back at my behavior and how that behavior has consequences, good and bad. Maybe if I'd gone the other way I could be just like you.

How's the William Ayres fan club going by the way?

LOL.

[DesertBoltFanII]

About what part, the groping?? lmao.......


Yeah, I love a good grope. I must, Oz says I lick someone nuts also. I mean it's only fair if I lick nuts then I should at least get a good grope in return right?

[DesertBoltFanII]

These videos are supposed to make me worry about losing my civil liberties or living in a police state? If anything this just shows how little authority these agents have. They didnt ask for any "papers", they didnt ask for any ID and they didnt even have the guy detained which was his obvious end goal. It looked like the guy could have practically hurled a loogie in their faces and they wouldnt have been able to do a thing about it. Even in an airport you are required to show a passport when coming in from out of the country and all they are doing here is asking your counrty of citizenship. Are we really comparing this to nazi germany? :rolleyes: These videos did a good job of showing exactly how little power these agents have though.


Oh Jon you poor misguided soul. Can't you see it!!!?? It's right there for all to see, Jesus what is it gonna take with you people ,ARRGGGGHHHH!!!

LMAO, that is what I got out of too. Of course I'm not very bright so what is your excuse? HUH?:D

[DesertBoltFanII]

Try entering the US as an alien.

They ask all kinds of stuff.

Have you been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude?
Do you have any contagious diseases?
Are you a drug addict?
Do you plan to overthrow the US Government?
Are you a terrorist?
Are you a war criminal?




And they want pictures and finger prints for some reason!


With all that you still managed to get through?:D I can't believe we even are able to maintain a tourist industry with those tough questions. LOL. Sounds like our guests:eek::D civil liberties are as much in danger as ours.

[RJones61]

3 AMIGOS

[Boltfan of Oz]

Yes, I did in deed.
I know I should have done the right thing like you Oz and continued blaming the cops for doing their job, not take responsibility for my own behavior, a behavior that triggered a response by the cop, a message sending response. I should had let it take me down a life long road of hate and suspicion for any and all authority, even though I was the one that caused it. I should have let it jade me for life and cause me to pass that hate, anger, and loathing on to my kids so they can become the next generation of anti authority whiners.

Yep, that is what I should have done instead of getting the message and reflecting back at my behavior and how that behavior has consequences, good and bad. Maybe if I'd gone the other way I could be just like you.

How's the William Ayres fan club going by the way?

LOL.

Des, you are very much full of hate and suspicion...just not for the people who have actually wronged you. Even as you're agreeing with here, you LOVE cops and that guy taught you a "valuable lesson".

What should Muncie have gotten out of the experience, a hard on? Loving what your abuser did to you is the option YOU took, but don't fool yourself into thinking it made your life better, or that others should take your shameful path in dealing with it

Strange thing to say regarding my "fan club"...are you sure you thought this one through?

[munciesweep]

Yes, I did in deed.
I know I should have done the right thing like you Oz and continued blaming the cops for doing their job, not take responsibility for my own behavior, a behavior that triggered a response by the cop, a message sending response. I should had let it take me down a life long road of hate and suspicion for any and all authority, even though I was the one that caused it. I should have let it jade me for life and cause me to pass that hate, anger, and loathing on to my kids so they can become the next generation of anti authority whiners.

Yep, that is what I should have done instead of getting the message and reflecting back at my behavior and how that behavior has consequences, good and bad. Maybe if I'd gone the other way I could be just like you.

How's the William Ayres fan club going by the way?

LOL.

Back to the victim roll playing??? Dude, it's quite becoming and you wear it well. You have been whipped into an obedient servant, and it goes on...........and on.......and on......

[chilli311]

LABolt and Des have a point on this one though.

Honestly, without a smart-ass answer, or a diversion in the form of another question, what is this video getting across? He drives up, is asked what country he is a citizen of, refuses to answer, and then is let go after having his license plate noted. Where is the checkpoint at? What harm is it to answer such a simple question?

In the meantime, he's asking them what is the purpose of the stop. They answer "immigration checkpoint." He asks if he is being detained. They answer, "no."

All that video showed me is that a douche bag can make anything fit his own agenda.

[munciesweep]

Yes, I did in deed.
I know I should have done the right thing like you Oz and continued blaming the cops for doing their job, not take responsibility for my own behavior, a behavior that triggered a response by the cop, a message sending response. I should had let it take me down a life long road of hate and suspicion for any and all authority, even though I was the one that caused it. I should have let it jade me for life and cause me to pass that hate, anger, and loathing on to my kids so they can become the next generation of anti authority whiners.

Yep, that is what I should have done instead of getting the message and reflecting back at my behavior and how that behavior has consequences, good and bad. Maybe if I'd gone the other way I could be just like you.

How's the William Ayres fan club going by the way?

LOL.

William Ayres fan club.........wow. You reached pretty low in the ammo box for that one des.

[munciesweep]

LABolt and Des have a point on this one though.

Honestly, without a smart-ass answer, or a diversion in the form of another question, what is this video getting across? He drives up, is asked what country he is a citizen of, refuses to answer, and then is let go after having his license plate noted. Where is the checkpoint at? What harm is it to answer such a simple question?

In the meantime, he's asking them what is the purpose of the stop. They answer "immigration checkpoint." He asks if he is being detained. They answer, "no."

All that video showed me is that a douche bag can make anything fit his own agenda.

He was pulled over everyday coming home from work and I guess he needed a way to amuse himself. Not my style, but I didn't post it as some kind of scare tactic, I thought it was funny, still do.....in a keystone cop kind of way.

[RJones61]

I dont know about how some of you all took the videos. I laughed at it more than anything.

Here a guy comes pulling up to what seems to be a Tailgate party and I know the Red Haired chick wanted to say something else that what the Border Patrol has scripted for such an incident

Then the video got real comical as the guys finished the Donuts they were eating and started taking pictures with their Cell Phones

Now if this was the SS back in WWII...the dude would have been shot

[Boltfan of Oz]

Now if this was the SS back in WWII...the dude would have been shot

Rome wasn't burnt in a day....give it some time

[munciesweep]

I dont know about how some of you all took the videos. I laughed at it more than anything.

Here a guy comes pulling up to what seems to be a Tailgate party and I know the Red Haired chick wanted to say something else that what the Border Patrol has scripted for such an incident

Then the video got real comical as the guys finished the Donuts they were eating and started taking pictures with their Cell Phones

Now if this was the SS back in WWII...the dude would have been shot

You can see the poor girls being coached on from the sidelines......they keep loking back like, "what do I do know, he's not cooperating".....and the cops come back was......to pull out a digital camera and start "firing back" snapshots.....lmfao:p........it's almost piss the pants funny if you look at it that way, instead of like the cops did.:D

[RJones61]

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/20899.jpg?is=350,350,0xffffff


I got stopped by this agent...She violated me

[munciesweep]

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/20899.jpg?is=350,350,0xffffff


I got stopped by this agent...She violated me

In my wettest dreams Jones!!!:p

[munciesweep]

Whats that Depeche Mode song..."Your own....personal...Jesus" "Reach Out And Touch Faith.....great band, BTW....


YouTube - YOUR OWN-PERSONAL-GUAPO..hahaha!

YouTube - Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus

Johnny Cash Version........CLASSIC!!

YouTube - Johnny cash - Personal jesus

MM Version...."Scary".....:p

YouTube - Marilyn Manson - Personal Jesus: Blurred Clean Version

[Ramerica]

With all that you still managed to get through?:D I can't believe we even are able to maintain a tourist industry with those tough questions. LOL. Sounds like our guests:eek::D civil liberties are as much in danger as ours.

If you'd seeen the Brits going to Florida every year, or the brder guards, I doubt they know what Moral Turpitude is.

I had to look it up in the book!

The The question about spying and terrorism makes me smile.

If you answer 'yes' it kind of blows the cover, and if you answer 'no' then you are guilty of lying on a form.

[apollo12]

I'm glad we have cops to arrest raider fans.

[Drunk]

I dont know about how some of you all took the videos. I laughed at it more than anything.

Here a guy comes pulling up to what seems to be a Tailgate party and I know the Red Haired chick wanted to say something else that what the Border Patrol has scripted for such an incident

Then the video got real comical as the guys finished the Donuts they were eating and started taking pictures with their Cell Phones

Now if this was the SS back in WWII...the dude would have been shot

Haha. :p

[Drunk]

3 AMIGOS (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xZ3KVYt8__A)

Alright which one of you is DUSTY BOTTOMS?

[DesertBoltFanII]

Des, you are very much full of hate and suspicion...just not for the people who have actually wronged you. Even as you're agreeing with here, you LOVE cops and that guy taught you a "valuable lesson".

What should Muncie have gotten out of the experience, a hard on? Loving what your abuser did to you is the option YOU took, but don't fool yourself into thinking it made your life better, or that others should take your shameful path in dealing with it

Strange thing to say regarding my "fan club"...are you sure you thought this one through?


You know what youngster? Mark is a grown man and he sure as hell doesn't need me to tell him what he should or shouldn't have gotten out of anything. You may think every word you spew or write is as if it were Gods own, but I don't. He ( Mark ) has proven time and time again he can thinks and manage just fine for his self. I told all that cared to read, what (I) got out of what happened to me and that was odd to you, and that post was aimed at you because somehow because I chose to reflect on how my actions ( being a smart ass, stupid kid with a big mouth) cause someone (police officer) else to empose a little wake up call on me, you look at it as weak, caving in to the MAN, or whatever. We all have choices to make in this life, and like it our not there are some that wouldn't do as you think they should, and actually go on to have meanful, and productive lives. I know that is a shock to you but it is true.


Love what my abuser did to me. Are you for real man or are you just pulling a huge scam on us?

Truth is you can't find where I said I loved that. I infact hated it very much and thought the instant it happened what a dick the cop was, (but) upon refection of the events came to the conclusion my being an asshole caused it, not him.
Understand now?

You telling me I hate and have suspicions is rich. This coming from the guy that thinks the world is out to get him. I have said many times ( talk about me not getting what you vomit out on here?) and I will say it again. Pay attention.

I hate absolutely no one on here, with the exception being you. And you have continued to give me no reason to consider changing that stance either. It is however a hate I can bare and live with, very little energy is wasted on it, and requirer very little energy anyway. I mean it's you afterall, come on jez, not like it is someone meaningful.

Have a nice day anyway.:D

[DesertBoltFanII]

Back to the victim roll playing??? Dude, it's quite becoming and you wear it well. You have been whipped into an obedient servant, and it goes on...........and on.......and on......



Now that really hurts man.

I really can't see or read in that post where I'm acting the victim, and are you saying if someone attacks me I should not respond? That can't be, you guys are the ones saying don't laydown, stand up and be heard, fight the abuse, blah, blah, blah. Isn't that welcome here anymore?
Jez, I wish you guys would get the rules out to the rest of us, or at least don't change the rules.
Hope that didn't come off like a victim?

One thing confuses me, you say I have been "whipped into obedient servant", but then say I play the victim? Which one is it?

"Whipped into an obedient servant" sounds like you are calling me a victim not me calling me a victim.:confused:
See my point on being confused? Help me out would ya?
Do I think I'm a victim, or do you think I'm a victim, or both of us think I'm a victim or maybe we both think I'm not a victim?:confused: Our you think victim I think not, or I think victim and you think not?:confused:

Hope you aren't as confused as I.:D

[DesertBoltFanII]

I dont know about how some of you all took the videos. I laughed at it more than anything.

Here a guy comes pulling up to what seems to be a Tailgate party and I know the Red Haired chick wanted to say something else that what the Border Patrol has scripted for such an incident

Then the video got real comical as the guys finished the Donuts they were eating and started taking pictures with their Cell Phones

Now if this was the SS back in WWII...the dude would have been shot


Exactly it is obsurd.
And yet this is one part of that great, well oiled machine, well trained, well equipped, secretive, shadow government agencies that are possed to at us Nationally and take over control of the country at any moment once Bush gives the word to move.
You know all about them, sure you do. We have been reading about how they set explosives in buildings, fire missles disguised as planes to hit buildings, cover it up, etc.

God I wish you guys would start paying more attention to what goes on on here, holy cow, geepers.:D

[DesertBoltFanII]

Rome wasn't burnt in a day....give it some time

Right. Nor was it only burnt once.

[DesertBoltFanII]

If you'd seeen the Brits going to Florida every year, or the brder guards, I doubt they know what Moral Turpitude is.

I had to look it up in the book!

The The question about spying and terrorism makes me smile.

If you answer 'yes' it kind of blows the cover, and if you answer 'no' then you are guilty of lying on a form.



That is a perfect example of why we are so far ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to security. We can get you either way. Say "No" and then commit the terrorist act ( and if you survive it ) and we arrest you and add lying on a government document to the charges.
Say "Yes" and we arrest you for being almost a terrorist.
Either way we are totally covered and safe.;)



You know the funny thing? There are some on here that will think I'm serious.:)

[Boltfan of Oz]

,,You know what youngster? Mark is a grown man and he sure as hell doesn't need me to tell him what he should or shouldn't have gotten out of anything. You may think every word you spew or write is as if it were Gods own, but I don't. He ( Mark ) has proven time and time again he can thinks and manage just fine for his self. I told all that cared to read, what (I) got out of what happened to me and that was odd to you, and that post was aimed at you because somehow because I chose to reflect on how my actions ( being a smart ass, stupid kid with a big mouth) cause someone (police officer) else to empose a little wake up call on me, you look at it as weak, caving in to the MAN, or whatever. We all have choices to make in this life, and like it our not there are some that wouldn't do as you think they should, and actually go on to have meanful, and productive lives. I know that is a shock to you but it is true.

It looks like you should stop patronizing those who are smarter than you...or at least read all of the posts before attempting the bad idea. Don't fool yourself


Love what my abuser did to me. Are you for real man or are you just pulling a huge scam on us?

Truth is you can't find where I said I loved that. I infact hated it very much and thought the instant it happened what a dick the cop was, (but) upon refection of the events came to the conclusion my being an asshole caused it, not him.
Understand now?

I understood then and I understand now...you don't. You just said it again. It was painful while it happened and now you think it was swell and that you deserved it

You telling me I hate and have suspicions is rich. This coming from the guy that thinks the world is out to get him. I have said many times ( talk about me not getting what you vomit out on here?) and I will say it again. Pay attention.

Even if I thought the world was out to get me, it has nothing to do with me saying that you are full of hate and suspicious (this is your favorite fallacy again...you didn't learn)

I hate absolutely no one on here, with the exception being you. And you have continued to give me no reason to consider changing that stance either. It is however a hate I can bare and live with, very little energy is wasted on it, and requirer very little energy anyway. I mean it's you afterall, come on jez, not like it is someone meaningful.

I didn't limit my statement to this site. Grow up you big baby...you hate me? lol. That cop is loved and you hate me? ME? And you actually typed that for all to see? I think my pity costs way less than your hate
Have a nice day anyway.:D

[DesertBoltFanII]

Whatever man.

Do you honestly think anyone else on here doesn't get the idea that I hate you and you do likewise?

Grow up idiot.

[Boltfan of Oz]

Whatever man.

Do you honestly think anyone else on here doesn't get the idea that I hate you and you do likewise?

Grow up idiot.

lol...why would I hate you? Why do you hate me? What did I do to you?

[Ramerica]

Actually, although Rome took time to build it took very little time to burn it down. Wood is pretty flammable and then without a fire fighting force things get bad quickly.

[Boltfan of Oz]

Actually, although Rome took time to build it took very little time to burn it down. Wood is pretty flammable and then without a fire fighting force things get bad quickly.

lol...fuckin pommy

[L'Niño Storm]

Maybe I'm a little slow on this one, but I don't get the sense Oz hates you Des.

I could be wrong, but from what I've read I think he finds you amusing, frustrating at times, but mostly pitiable, because from all accounts you probably seem like a nice guy to him who is exceptionally misinformed or uninformed.

Add in that you often identify with people that would never identify with you if given the chance, when you say "we" and "us" talking about government policies and practices.......which is one of the tragic flaws of personal and racial identity in this nation.

It's actually kinda frustrating to hear some folks speak about america in such glib terms....."love it or leave it", "take the bad with the good" and such.

To me being patriotic means enjoying the good of the nation while diligently working to change or eliminate the bad for all it's citizens.

Problem is.....folks get the sense that if you criticize the policies or practices of american government that you're criticizing them personally, because they derive too much personal identity from being american rather than being human which would connect them with the world.

Viewed through the lense you often use to inspect the information Oz presents to you...I understand fully why you respond the way you do and the perspective with which you shape your opinions.

Oz does too mind you...he understands you just fine, but would probably admit to sometimes lacking the patience that the transformative process of some hearts and minds might take.

He doesn't hate you...he just doesn't share your world view.

Taking a less american biased view of the world would easily allow one to see that you often appear to be too american in your writings.

Identifying so heavily sometimes causes you to ignore, excuse, or try to defend policies, actions, and information that you know sometimes is to the detriment of the global community, or worse at times....is just wrong!

So for a man with such a big heart that others often laud as such....it would seem tragic that you would take such a clearly flawed approach to personal identity. One might even say you're actually too good of a person to be talking about hate in such a way....if nobody else will...I'll say it!

It's your choice in personal identity which often causes you to focus on the character or identity of others or their intentions or to appeal emotionally to those you feel share your views or what could be more accurately stated....share your personal identity. (ad hominem)

You talk about self-loathing and other stuff pundits run off at the mouth about. You feel you're on the roof-top alone screaming..."america is great...don't you know that"?!!!

We're down here screaming up to you saying, "get down from there....of course we know that...we just know we've done some bad things we need to take responsibility for and work on and that we understand that knowing and fully embracing all of our history is the best way to not be doomed to repeat the bad aspects of it and help the world".

Oz wrote to you in a thread lost in GTP-Gate once that you'd be much better off if you would only realize you have much more in common with the people all over this world you are very critical of than you have in common with those in charge of the american government you are so often quick to defend.

Judging by what I've learned of you and what many others say about you...I'd say Oz is right. You would be better off expanding your palette and broadening your world view big homey.

You're better than the folks you often defend in these threads and you just don't seem to know it!

[Ramerica]

lol...fuckin pommy

Well someone has to keep you Colonials in line ......

[LABoltFan]

Maybe I'm a little slow on this one, but I don't get the sense Oz hates you Des.

I could be wrong, but from what I've read I think he finds you amusing, frustrating at times, but mostly pitiable, because from all accounts you probably seem like a nice guy to him who is exceptionally misinformed or uninformed.

Add in that you often identify with people that would never identify with you if given the chance, when you say "we" and "us" talking about government policies and practices.......which is one of the tragic flaws of personal and racial identity in this nation.

It's actually kinda frustrating to hear some folks speak about america in such glib terms....."love it or leave it", "take the bad with the good" and such.

To me being patriotic means enjoying the good of the nation while diligently working to change or eliminate the bad for all it's citizens.

Problem is.....folks get the sense that if you criticize the policies or practices of american government that you're criticizing them personally, because they derive too much personal identity from being american rather than being human which would connect them with the world.

Viewed through the lense you often use to inspect the information Oz presents to you...I understand fully why you respond the way you do and the perspective with which you shape your opinions.

Oz does too mind you...he understands you just fine, but would probably admit to sometimes lacking the patience that the transformative process of some hearts and minds might take.

He doesn't hate you...he just doesn't share your world view.

Taking a less american biased view of the world would easily allow one to see that you often appear to be too american in your writings.

Identifying so heavily sometimes causes you to ignore, excuse, or try to defend policies, actions, and information that you know sometimes is to the detriment of the global community, or worse at times....is just wrong!

So for a man with such a big heart that others often laud as such....it would seem tragic that you would take such a clearly flawed approach to personal identity. One might even say you're actually too good of a person to be talking about hate in such a way....if nobody else will...I'll say it!

It's your choice in personal identity which often causes you to focus on the character or identity of others or their intentions or to appeal emotionally to those you feel share your views or what could be more accurately stated....share your personal identity. (ad hominem)

You talk about self-loathing and other stuff pundits run off at the mouth about. You feel you're on the roof-top alone screaming..."america is great...don't you know that"?!!!

We're down here screaming up to you saying, "get down from there....of course we know that...we just know we've done some bad things we need to take responsibility for and work on and that we understand that knowing and fully embracing all of our history is the best way to not be doomed to repeat the bad aspects of it and help the world".

Oz wrote to you in a thread lost in GTP-Gate once that you'd be much better off if you would only realize you have much more in common with the people all over this world you are very critical of than you have in common with those in charge of the american government you are so often quick to defend.

Judging by what I've learned of you and what many others say about you...I'd say Oz is right. You would be better off expanding your palette and broadening your world view big homey.

You're better than the folks you often defend in these threads and you just don't seem to know it!

I'd like to hear more about "the transformative process of some hearts and minds" and what you meant by that. I didnt want to jump to conclusions so that is why Im asking. Were you referring to the way debate is communicated on here or to someone's personal opinions and beliefs?

[L'Niño Storm]

I'd like to hear more about "the transformative process of some hearts and minds" and what you meant by that. I didnt want to jump to conclusions so that is why Im asking. Were you referring to the way debate is communicated on here or to someone's personal opinions and beliefs?

All of the above LA.

When folks say things like God bless America and "F" everybody else or everybody else can go to hell, because that's what they think it means to be patriotic or they're just pissy about what they think others mean instead of engaging to find out......there is something wrong with their heart and their mind in relationship to debate, opinion, belief, and otherwise!

It's a piss poor view of your fellow man and I've read both versions and other similar sentiments on these very boards!

I think America can do better!

I think we can be blessed without anybody else being screwed or going to hell. I think anybody that thinks that way needs a change of heart and mind and that it takes patient and caring people to engage and try to assist with that change.

You can't namecall and disrespect your way to understanding and peace. It takes a free-flowing exchange of ideas and a healthy respect for differences.

It's as true in the world as it is on these boards!

I hope that clears that up for you.

[chilli311]

When folks say things like God bless America and "F" everybody else or everybody else can go to hell, because that's what they think it means to be patriotic or they're just pissy about what they think others mean instead of engaging to find out......there is something wrong with their heart and their mind in relationship to debate, opinion, belief, and otherwise!

I'm pretty sure that wasn't Des that said that though. I could be wrong, but I recall those words coming from someone else.

[L'Niño Storm]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't Des that said that though. I could be wrong, but I recall those words coming from someone else.

If you are refering to the first two quotes I mentioned....I never attributed those things to Des.

I'm not attacking him.

He certainly however, has implied some members are "self loathing" in relationship to his definition of patriotism and that absolutely was Des accusing me of being dishonest and hypocritical in one thread over what he thought I wanted or what he decided I meant.... instead of engaging me to find out what was true.

But he ain't gotta be perfect to be my big homey though!

[DesertBoltFanII]

All of the above LA.

When folks say things like God bless America and "F" everybody else or everybody else can go to hell, because that's what they think it means to be patriotic or they're just pissy about what they think others mean instead of engaging to find out......there is something wrong with their heart and their mind in relationship to debate, opinion, belief, and otherwise!

It's a piss poor view of your fellow man and I've read both versions and other similar sentiments on these very boards!

I think America can do better!

I think we can be blessed without anybody else being screwed or going to hell. I think anybody that thinks that way needs a change of heart and mind and that it takes patient and caring people to engage and try to assist with that change.

You can't namecall and disrespect your way to understanding and peace. It takes a free-flowing exchange of ideas and a healthy respect for differences.

It's as true in the world as it is on these boards!

I hope that clears that up for you.


Does that theory apply to the people that call our military, and leaders thugs, criminals, murderers. Does it mean they are not patriots? The guys that look for nothing but bad in America and those in charge and then attack and belittle anyone that sees it different?
Or is that exceptable debate practices for GTP?

[Drunk]

Does that theory apply to the people that call our military, and leaders thugs, criminals, murderers. Does it mean they are not patriots? The guys that look for nothing but bad in America and those in charge and then attack and belittle anyone that sees it different?
Or is that exceptable debate practices for GTP?

I think you have to look at it on case by case and person by person basis. IMO our leaders are pieces of shit. Fuck them. They are treasonous. They would shit on me or you in a nano second if it was in their be$t intere$t. Im an american, so i dont take well to anybody sending this country to hell. Whether its our so called leaders or not. I am not anti-military at all, but yes there are murders, thugs, rapists, criminals, gang members, etc currently serving in the armed forces. That doesnt mean i think they are all this way. I have many friends and even family in the military. I dont belittle them. Even my ex bro in law who hates arabs and makes no bones about it. He makes no distinction between civilian or iraqi resistance. All are fair game to him. I still have his back no matter how fucked up i think his life outlook is. Nothing i can ever tell him would ever change his brainwashed mind. Even when i tell him Iraq wasnt responsible for 9/11 he doesnt believe me. I may not be pro government, but that doesnt mean im not pro military. Many dont see a distinction. But that doesnt mean i give any service member an automatic hero label. They are our brothers sent to die for lies and profit. Of course everyone has a different reason for joining. Some good some bad. But the big picture is a big lie. For those that are pro government, i think you should be asking why they treat so many vets who come home injured like shit. They are treated like replaceable pegs and that should piss you off. Ive been to the hospitals and ive talked the vets.

All in all i guess its just very ironic situation. So everyone eat psychedelics and become enlightened, if even for a little while. ;)

[Saxman]

So eat psychedelics and become enlightened, if even for a little while. ;)

"My third eye was squeegied QUITE cleanly..." - Bill Hicks

[L'Niño Storm]

Does that theory apply to the people that call our military, and leaders thugs, criminals, murderers. Does it mean they are not patriots? The guys that look for nothing but bad in America and those in charge and then attack and belittle anyone that sees it different?
Or is that exceptable debate practices for GTP?

Let me try this another way.....

YOU are not the finaciers and politicians doing these horrible things in the name of profit! It's not an attack on YOU.....but you see yourself, the government, the military, and everybody else as one entity. To you it's all America and any criticism becomes a personal attack for that very reason. That's why you mention self-loathing and such things to those wishing to fix the wrongs in America by first identifying them.

Saying "America does...." only identifies you as guilty as far as saying you are a member of the whole.....it does not identify you as the specific member responsible for the thing being criticized.

Let's say it's a family......and there are those that decide what direction the family should go. If they decide to do something that is wrong....those family members are guilty by initiation. (what the financiers and government does)

I don't have to hate my family or myself to point out some of the bad things some of my family members may initiate, which may indeed reflect poorly on me as a member of the family. It doesn't make me guilty of the act or of being complicit....I'm guilty just by happenstance of being born American. (what some on these board do)

Now if I stand by and accept the act my family does that I know is wrong, just because they're family and somehow even try to excuse the act I know is wrong so that it doesn't reflect as poorly on me...or start talking about what other families do as a justification or to steer focus away from what my family has done....then I'm being complicit and have now become guilty by association. (what you and some others sometimes do)

If I was told by a family member what to do and it turns out it was wrong...I'm guilty by participation....not initiation or origination.(sometimes what the military does)

So you can see there is more than one way to be guilty and you do have a choice as an American what part of the family you identify with. Contrary to popular belief it doesn't have to be a "love it or leave it" type of proposition.

Nobody is looking for "nothing but bad in America".....the Chargers are in America and that's how we all ended up on these boards...so America can't be all bad!

That's just you taking offense, because of your personal identity and you attacking the character of those willing to be critical of the government for some of the things that you have freely admitted we sometimes do.

You don't seem to understand the point they are trying to make by pointing out similar things that America has done and is doing when folks start trying to explain why Muslim nations "got it comin".

As a so-called Christian nation we are not very quick to follow the instructions of Christ when he told us to remove the plank from our own eye before we try and remove the speck from our brother's eye.

That's the point of explaining what the US does wrong...hopefully it will stop some and cause them to think about doing unto others as we would have others do unto us instead of just trying to exact retribution or worse....preempt what people might have done in the name of our own percieved safety.

So yes....those are acceptable debate practices if those claiming such can back up their claims with facts that would indeed indicate we have been thugs, criminals, and murderers.

Us taking offense doesn't change the facts. We shouldn't try to excuse it or explain it away, cause it wouldn't make it less wrong. Also...what other families do wrong doesn't justify our wrong-doings.

What you seem to want is a discussion slanted more toward the good things our family does or the wrong-doings of other families.

There's nothing wrong with discussing that, and you won't hear folks making excuses for those wrong-doings. Wrong is wrong!

You might however, get folks drawing parallels and showing examples of our family doing the same things in our history which would make us very hypocritical to make those wrong-doings our justification for killing others or invading another sovereign country.

I'm just not as concerned with what their family is doing as I am with what our family does and how our family members are doing right here. I also think when we do get concerned about other families the right way to view others families is through a policy lense of diplomacy...not military.

I think their family would be just fine without us involved....they can either work out their differences or destroy their own family from within. It might even come to blows between family members...as it did in this country...but that's their business to work through.

It's costing some of our family a fortune to play family mediator and other parts of our family are gettig filthy rich by getting into other family's problems.

I don't want our family doing this stuff...so I'm not going to pretend it isn't happening or hasn't happened!

Does that help?

[L'Niño Storm]

I think you have to look at it on case by case and person by person basis. IMO our leaders are pieces of shit. Fuck them. They are treasonous. They would shit on me or you in a nano second if it was in their be intere. Im an american, so i dont take well to anybody sending this country to hell. Whether its our so called leaders or not. I am not anti-military at all, but yes there are murders, thugs, rapists, criminals, gang members, etc currently serving in the armed forces. That doesnt mean i think they are all this way. I have many friends and even family in the military. I dont belittle them. Even my ex bro in law who hates arabs and makes no bones about it. He makes no distinction between civilian or iraqi resistance. All are fair game to him. I still have his back no matter how fucked up i think his life outlook is. Nothing i can ever tell him would ever change his brainwashed mind. Even when i tell him Iraq wasnt responsible for 9/11 he doesnt believe me. I may not be pro government, but that doesnt mean im not pro military. Many dont see a distinction. But that doesnt mean i give any service member an automatic hero label. They are our brothers sent to die for lies and profit. Of course everyone has a different reason for joining. Some good some bad. But the big picture is a big lie. For those that are pro government, i think you should be asking why they treat so many vets who come home injured like shit. They are treated like replaceable pegs and that should piss you off. Ive been to the hospitals and ive talked the vets.

All in all i guess its just very ironic situation. So everyone eat psychedelics and become enlightened, if even for a little while. ;)

Can't endorse the psychedelics, but having three brothers that served in the military...I can certainly understand being pro-military without being pro-government!